Neck Angle - Seasonal humidity changes

[DanielleOM]

I find myself wondering if you have a guitar with a neck angle that is
far from ideal, but still in a playable range, if that makes the whole
guitar more unstable when it comes to seasonal humidity changes. (when
compared to one that has an ideal neck angle) Any thoughts?


Danielle

[Tony Done]

Post by DanielleOM
I find myself wondering if you have a guitar with a neck angle that is
far from ideal, but still in a playable range, if that makes the whole
guitar more unstable when it comes to seasonal humidity changes. (when
compared to one that has an ideal neck angle) Any thoughts?
Danielle

I think it could be the other way round, the poor neck angle is perhaps
symptom of instability. I had a Martin J-40 that was unstable - the
fretboard extension used to go up and down like a yo-yo - and it also
had a low neck angle. The tone also deteriorated over time. It might
have come from the factory OK and then just got worse.

[David L. Martel]

Danielle,

Why the focus on neck angle? And what sort of neck? I know that neck
relief does vary a bit with humidity. In flat tops the top of the guitar
moves with humidity also. My gut feeling is that neck angle is fairly stable
but I've no data.
Keeping your guitars stored in a stable environment is a good idea.

Dave M.

[DanielleOM]

Post by David L. Martel
Danielle,
Why the focus on neck angle? And what sort of neck? I know that neck
relief does vary a bit with humidity. In flat tops the top of the guitar
moves with humidity also. My gut feeling is that neck angle is fairly stable
but I've no data.
Keeping your guitars stored in a stable environment is a good idea.
Dave M.

I focus on the neck angle, as the cost of a neck reset can be a little
difficult to swallow. I do not know if Eastman has taken care of these
under warranty.

The neck is a maple neck, 3 piece, with an ebony fret board, 1 3/4 nut,
joined at the body with a 14 fret. In general I think I manage to keep
humidity relatively stable. I have a humidity gauge right on my desk in
my practice area.

I think there are other factors here other than your typical seasonal
humidity changes. This is one instrument out of eight that continues to
be exceptionally problematic. Five of the guitars I have here are
Eastman guitars.

A luthier called me yesterday, while he had the guitar on the bench. He
said he was able to improve the neck from a relief situation, but
agreed, that the neck angle is far from ideal. The bridge is not thick
enough to permit shaving of the bridge. I was afraid the rod was at the
end of it's adjustment. He said it need some lubricant at the threads.

I will try and report back here after I get the guitar back.


Danielle

[David L. Martel]

Danielle,

Post by DanielleOM
I focus on the neck angle, as the cost of a neck reset can be a little
difficult to swallow. I do not know if Eastman has taken care of these
under warranty.

Send them an e-mail. It's a lifetime warranty, so if you're not dead it's
good. They exclude instruments that have been altered or modified.

Dave M.

[DanielleOM]

Post by David L. Martel
Danielle,

Post by DanielleOM
I focus on the neck angle, as the cost of a neck reset can be a little
difficult to swallow. I do not know if Eastman has taken care of these
under warranty.

Send them an e-mail. It's a lifetime warranty, so if you're not dead it's
good. They exclude instruments that have been altered or modified.
Dave M.

I always have to wonder about those modification clauses. Most people
add a strap pin. A pickup installation is pretty common too.

(I have run into a few people that have really regretted the
custom spray paint jobs they did on early Les Pauls.)


Danielle

[David L. Martel]

Danielle,

Just like strings, strap pins are expected to wear out and are often not
covered by warranty. Replacing a strap pin is not 'modification', it's
'routine maintenance'.
Installing an undersaddle bridge pickup is modification. I'd bet that
there are SOPs for dealing with such warranty questions and they are
manufacturer specific. I doubt that installing a pick-up would affect the
neck angle of a set-neck guitar. Eastman has an e-mail type form for
customer service on their web-site. Be sure to print a copy for your records
before you hit the submit button.
From your posting it's likely that they will send you to a local luthier
for an evaluation or accept your luthier's diagnosis. I'd expect them to
have a semi-local luthier who handles their repair work.
Still, I'm guessing ,so get in touch with them. It's not hard

Dave M.

[hank alrich]

Post by David L. Martel
Danielle,

Post by DanielleOM
I focus on the neck angle, as the cost of a neck reset can be a little
difficult to swallow. I do not know if Eastman has taken care of these
under warranty.

Send them an e-mail. It's a lifetime warranty, so if you're not dead it's
good. They exclude instruments that have been altered or modified.
Dave M.

This is good advice.

Little things like strap buttons, etc., don't void warranties.

[hank alrich]

Post by David L. Martel
Keeping your guitars stored in a stable environment is a good idea.

And completely impossible for the traveling working musician!
Between the arid norhtern Sierra Nevada where I live, and humid Ausstin
TX, out of which I most often work, my guitars suffer through extremes.

One must carry a truss rod wrench at all times. ;-)

[Tom from Texas]

Post by hank alrich

Post by David L. Martel
Keeping your guitars stored in a stable environment is a good idea.

And completely impossible for the traveling working musician!
Between the arid norhtern Sierra Nevada where I live, and humid Ausstin
TX, out of which I most often work, my guitars suffer through extremes.
One must carry a truss rod wrench at all times. ;-)
--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

Do ye ever use a monkey wrench or crowbar on yer guitar? I put a steering wheel lock in the soundhole so it won't get stolen.

Tom (thinkin' ahead of the crowd) from Bizarro World

[hank alrich]

Post by Tom from Texas

Post by hank alrich

Post by David L. Martel
Keeping your guitars stored in a stable environment is a good idea.

And completely impossible for the traveling working musician!
Between the arid norhtern Sierra Nevada where I live, and humid Ausstin
TX, out of which I most often work, my guitars suffer through extremes.
One must carry a truss rod wrench at all times. ;-)
--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

Do ye ever use a monkey wrench or crowbar on yer guitar?

I _am_ a monkey wrench. At least that's what Al and Cea's cat told the
neighbors my guitar said.

I used to have a crowbar but I lost it looking for a bolt in the
nuthouse. Now all I have is a canary stick.

Post by Tom from Texas
I put a steering wheel lock in the soundhole so it won't get stolen.

I see. I hope Moose and Spike remember to bring you dinner.

Post by Tom from Texas
Tom (thinkin' ahead of the crowd) from Bizarro World

So, you hear a crowd… hmmm…

[Les Cargill]

Post by Tom from Texas

Post by hank alrich

Post by David L. Martel
Keeping your guitars stored in a stable environment is a good idea.

And completely impossible for the traveling working musician!
Between the arid norhtern Sierra Nevada where I live, and humid Ausstin
TX, out of which I most often work, my guitars suffer through extremes.
One must carry a truss rod wrench at all times. ;-)
--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

Do ye ever use a monkey wrench or crowbar on yer guitar? I put a steering wheel lock in the soundhole so it won't get stolen.

Doubles as a slide-bar. Heavy, but boy the sustain...

Post by Tom from Texas
Tom (thinkin' ahead of the crowd) from Bizarro World

[DanielleOM]

Hi All


I got my Eastman archback guitar back from the luthier. He said the
truss rod needed a little lubrication.

I ended up giving the truss rod another tweak after getting it back and
the relief now seems to be close to what have with my SCGC OM. It would
seem the guitar can be set up within the range I like without having to
reset the neck. Eastman made this one with a bridge so thin, that there
is no room for bridge shaving.

I think the saddle needs to be reworked or replaced. It's been sanded,
and shimmed several times in the past. I am realizing the high E string
is too low. (Bad buzz on the 13th fret).

Anyone have experience with pre-shaped saddles?

Not exactly sure what the fretboard radius is. I do know that it's
smaller than my SCGC OM, but does not seem extremely small.

When measured, the string height is not any higher than what I have on
my SCGC OM, on the 6th string. However it feels higher. I admit I did
not check every string. I am wondering if the radius actually changes
ones perception when it comes to string height.Sha


Danielle

[Alan D.]

Howdy Danielle,

At this remove it is a bit hard to tell, but if you are getting buzz only on/at
one fret then I wouldn't suspect the saddle but the frets themselves. If it is
buzzing on a string all the way up the board then that sort of implies the
saddle being low. If it is just at one fret that it buzzes then maybe a fret
further down the board, the next one for example, may be a bit high. Simple fix
to just level the frets if you like the action.

That being said, having a new saddle installed and fitted and the intonation
set should be a job all told under ~$150us I would think.

Again, that may not be what is needed. I'm assuming that if you just got it
back from the luthier he/she did check all the usual in the proper sequence so
maybe talk to him/her again about it?

FWIW,
Alan D.

Post by DanielleOM
Hi All
I got my Eastman archback guitar back from the luthier. He said the
truss rod needed a little lubrication.
I ended up giving the truss rod another tweak after getting it back and
the relief now seems to be close to what have with my SCGC OM. It would
seem the guitar can be set up within the range I like without having to
reset the neck. Eastman made this one with a bridge so thin, that there
is no room for bridge shaving.
I think the saddle needs to be reworked or replaced. It's been sanded,
and shimmed several times in the past. I am realizing the high E string
is too low. (Bad buzz on the 13th fret).
Anyone have experience with pre-shaped saddles?
Not exactly sure what the fretboard radius is. I do know that it's
smaller than my SCGC OM, but does not seem extremely small.
When measured, the string height is not any higher than what I have on
my SCGC OM, on the 6th string. However it feels higher. I admit I did
not check every string. I am wondering if the radius actually changes
ones perception when it comes to string height.Sha
Danielle

"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment". - Francis Urquhart

[DanielleOM]

Post by Alan D.
Howdy Danielle,
At this remove it is a bit hard to tell, but if you are getting buzz only on/at
one fret then I wouldn't suspect the saddle but the frets themselves. If it is
buzzing on a string all the way up the board then that sort of implies the
saddle being low. If it is just at one fret that it buzzes then maybe a fret
further down the board, the next one for example, may be a bit high. Simple fix
to just level the frets if you like the action.
That being said, having a new saddle installed and fitted and the intonation
set should be a job all told under ~$150us I would think.
Again, that may not be what is needed. I'm assuming that if you just got it
back from the luthier he/she did check all the usual in the proper sequence so
maybe talk to him/her again about it?
FWIW,
Alan D.

Post by DanielleOM
Hi All
I got my Eastman archback guitar back from the luthier. He said the
truss rod needed a little lubrication.
I ended up giving the truss rod another tweak after getting it back and
the relief now seems to be close to what have with my SCGC OM. It would
seem the guitar can be set up within the range I like without having to
reset the neck. Eastman made this one with a bridge so thin, that there
is no room for bridge shaving.
I think the saddle needs to be reworked or replaced. It's been sanded,
and shimmed several times in the past. I am realizing the high E string
is too low. (Bad buzz on the 13th fret).
Anyone have experience with pre-shaped saddles?
Not exactly sure what the fretboard radius is. I do know that it's
smaller than my SCGC OM, but does not seem extremely small.
When measured, the string height is not any higher than what I have on
my SCGC OM, on the 6th string. However it feels higher. I admit I did
not check every string. I am wondering if the radius actually changes
ones perception when it comes to string height.Sha
Danielle

"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment". - Francis Urquhart

I took another look this morning and carefully went up the fretboard and
convinced myself the string is just low. I think I just happened to
have noticed it at the 13th yesterday playing a piece where I think I
just get a little bit more dynamic at a particular time and spot.

Trying to measure at the 12th fret, using my home made height gauge that
I drew on the back of a business card.

6 3/32 I barely have an 1/8" on the 1st string.

I was thinking of the pre-cut saddles as this guitar seems to very
sensitive to humidity when compared to other flattop guitars I own.
Thought it might be a way of getting several saddles with different
heights. I may not go there. I really want to be spending more time
playing than tweaking guitars. I suspect even with a preshaped saddle
some work may still be needed on the top of the saddle.

Danielle

[Steve Daniels]

On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 08:50:33 -0400, against all advice, something

Post by David L. Martel
Danielle,
Why the focus on neck angle? And what sort of neck? I know that neck
relief does vary a bit with humidity. In flat tops the top of the guitar
moves with humidity also. My gut feeling is that neck angle is fairly stable
but I've no data.
Keeping your guitars stored in a stable environment is a good idea.

I can predict the weather with my Kinscherff. When it goes flat, we're
going to have a few nice days. When it goes sharp, the rain is coming.

[hank alrich]

Post by Steve Daniels
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 08:50:33 -0400, against all advice, something

Post by David L. Martel
Danielle,
Why the focus on neck angle? And what sort of neck? I know that neck
relief does vary a bit with humidity. In flat tops the top of the guitar
moves with humidity also. My gut feeling is that neck angle is fairly stable
but I've no data.
Keeping your guitars stored in a stable environment is a good idea.

I can predict the weather with my Kinscherff. When it goes flat, we're
going to have a few nice days. When it goes sharp, the rain is coming.

I am lucky enough sometimes to attend the mostly-monthly song circles at
Al and Cea Evans place in Austin. Al and several others have lovely
Kinscherff's, and we're all double-lucky enough when Jamie and Martha
attend with a pair of those. Truly fabulous instruments, to my ears, my
fingers, and my eyes.

As well, the recent few of those circles has brought forth evidence of
widespread songwriting excellence. Pretty cool beans. Chips, too.

[Al Evans]

Post by hank alrich

Post by Steve Daniels
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 08:50:33 -0400, against all advice, something

Post by David L. Martel
Danielle,
Why the focus on neck angle? And what sort of neck? I know that neck
relief does vary a bit with humidity. In flat tops the top of the guitar
moves with humidity also. My gut feeling is that neck angle is fairly stable
but I've no data.
Keeping your guitars stored in a stable environment is a good idea.

I can predict the weather with my Kinscherff. When it goes flat, we're
going to have a few nice days. When it goes sharp, the rain is coming.

I am lucky enough sometimes to attend the mostly-monthly song circles at
Al and Cea Evans place in Austin. Al and several others have lovely
Kinscherff's, and we're all double-lucky enough when Jamie and Martha
attend with a pair of those. Truly fabulous instruments, to my ears, my
fingers, and my eyes.
As well, the recent few of those circles has brought forth evidence of
widespread songwriting excellence. Pretty cool beans. Chips, too.

I've noticed that there's always more songwriting excellence when Hank
shows up. And his McCollum guitars are as good as guitars get!

My Kinscherff is strictly sharp-when-wet, flat-when-dry, too. I've also
observed that it is at its happiest, for tone and playability, around its
birthday in June.

--Al Evans

[DanielleOM]

Post by DanielleOM
I find myself wondering if you have a guitar with a neck angle that is
far from ideal, but still in a playable range, if that makes the whole
guitar more unstable when it comes to seasonal humidity changes. (when
compared to one that has an ideal neck angle) Any thoughts?
Danielle

I have seen a lot of interesting responses, however none of them
directly address my original question. Where's Kevin Hall and the other
luthiers that used to be here.

Danielle

[hank alrich]

Post by DanielleOM

Post by DanielleOM
I find myself wondering if you have a guitar with a neck angle that is
far from ideal, but still in a playable range, if that makes the whole
guitar more unstable when it comes to seasonal humidity changes. (when
compared to one that has an ideal neck angle) Any thoughts?
Danielle

I have seen a lot of interesting responses, however none of them
directly address my original question. Where's Kevin Hall and the other
luthiers that used to be here.
Danielle

"If you have a guitar with <insert whatever>" - don't have that. Given
how many Eastmans you have and how this is seems an outlier, a direct
answer is, "I would return it to Eastman with a document expressing my
concerns, to see if they know something I don't."

Why is the neck angle "far from ideal"? That is a red flag to me,
suggesting a problem with structure, or material(s), or assembly.

As stated, I carry a couple of different McCollums across state and
humidity lines fairly regularly, and often must adjust their truss rods
accordingly. I don't consider them unstable, though they are well and
lightly built of good materials. I don't consider them fragile. They've
been tough co-travelers, so far.