Has Rock n Roll Jumped the Shark?

Comments?
https://musea.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/when-did-rock-and-roll-jump-the-shark/

Andrew Schulman

2015-01-25 00:50:22 UTC

Post by Tom Hendricks / Musea
Comments?
https://musea.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/when-did-rock-and-roll-jump-the-shark/

It jumped the shark on May 8, 1970 IMHO.

Andrew

gtr

2015-01-25 01:17:10 UTC

Post by Tom Hendricks / Musea
Comments?
https://musea.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/when-did-rock-and-roll-jump-the-shark/

It jumped the shark on May 8, 1970 IMHO.

If "Rock and Roll" referred to any one static concept, it could go into
marked decline. But it doesn't. Pink Floyd, the Moody Blues, the
Flying Burrito Brothers, ELO, Creedence Clearwater Revival and King
Crimson once inhabited the same time period. Which one was the jumper
and which one the jumpee?

The only aural correlary between them seems to be that that their names
include vowels.

gtr

2015-01-25 02:09:05 UTC

Post by Tom Hendricks / Musea
Comments?
https://musea.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/when-did-rock-and-roll-jump-the-shark/

It jumped the shark on May 8, 1970 IMHO.

If "Rock and Roll" referred to any one static concept, it could go into
marked decline. But it doesn't. Pink Floyd, the Moody Blues, the
Flying Burrito Brothers, ELO, Creedence Clearwater Revival and King
Crimson once inhabited the same time period. Which one was the jumper
and which one the jumpee?
The only aural correlary between them seems to be that that their names
include vowels.

By the way, for pop music in general, I'm wondering if 1972 wasn't the
worst year until the mid-80's:

http://tinyurl.com/qb3gv76

Steve Daniels

2015-01-25 02:52:38 UTC

On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 18:09:05 -0800, against all advice, something

Post by Tom Hendricks / Musea
Comments?
https://musea.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/when-did-rock-and-roll-jump-the-shark/

It jumped the shark on May 8, 1970 IMHO.

If "Rock and Roll" referred to any one static concept, it could go into
marked decline. But it doesn't. Pink Floyd, the Moody Blues, the
Flying Burrito Brothers, ELO, Creedence Clearwater Revival and King
Crimson once inhabited the same time period. Which one was the jumper
and which one the jumpee?
The only aural correlary between them seems to be that that their names
include vowels.

By the way, for pop music in general, I'm wondering if 1972 wasn't the
http://tinyurl.com/qb3gv76

Now *that* was a trip down memory lane. Thank you.

Andrew Schulman

2015-01-25 14:37:51 UTC

Post by gtr
By the way, for pop music in general, I'm wondering if 1972 wasn't the
http://tinyurl.com/qb3gv76

I'd have to look at other years re: that, but there are some REALLY good songs on this list, and one has personal connection for me. #12-Looking Glass-Brandy (You're A Fine Girl) was written and sung by my cousin Elliot Lurie, four years older than me, who'd play acoustic guitar and sing for family gatherings after holidays meals when I was a kid, and was the direct influence on my becoming a professional guitarist. Haven't seen him in decades, but remember he always had a big smile for me; a real nice older cousin.

Andrew

gtr

2015-01-25 16:45:48 UTC

On Saturday, January 24, 2015 at 9:09:08 PM UTC-5, gtr wrote:> By the
way, for pop music in general, I'm wondering if 1972 wasn't the> worst

Post by gtr
http://tinyurl.com/qb3gv76

I'd have to look at other years re: that, but there are some REALLY
good songs on this list, and one has personal connection for me.
#12-Looking Glass-Brandy (You're A Fine Girl) was written and sung by
my cousin Elliot Lurie, four years older than me, who'd play acoustic
guitar and sing for family gatherings after holidays meals when I was a
kid, and was the direct influence on my becoming a professional
guitarist. Haven't seen him in decades, but remember he always had a
big smile for me; a real nice older cousin.

Me and my crew loathed that specific song, Brandy, with unqualified
zeal. Of all the tunes in that particular top 40, that one was one of
the most deliciously horrible. In fact I read the top 12 from the list
to my wife yesterday and she too mentioned Brandy as one she truly
hated. For "homage to a whore" I still prefer Lilli Marlene; call me
old-fashioned.

But that's just one example that illustrates that there is no one
"rock" just like there is no one "popular". My little brother at age
10 thought that "Snoopy Versus the Red Baron" by the Royal Gaurdsman
was the greatest song ever and so he played it endlessly until
everybody in the family wanted to kill him. I had done the same 10
years before with Burl Ives and the "Big Rock Candy Mountain", until my
sister broke the record. Still, both outrages have now been converted
to pleasant memories of life in the boozum of fambly.

It's a difficult a call for which crap is the crappiest, though we've
all got our favorites. "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face", may be
the longest most lugubrious dirge of my lifetime(s). It's the death
march of pop songs. But for overwrought melodrama, what tune could top
Nilsson's "Without You"? And right there, vying for honors in
turgidity, is "Nights in White Satin"

As with many such years, there are some songs that might not have been
so problematic on the first 30 listenings, but coming around the three-
or four-hundred mark, you you want to a move to a farm in Utah and stop
bathing. Few top "American Pie" for that honor.

The tunes I liked best from that year none of my white friends seem to
have ever heard: Betcha By Golly Wow, Everybody Plays the Fool, Back
Stabbers, and even Oh Girl. I'm unsure if these were on the Top 100
tunes list for those years, as I believe the black pop tunes were still
segregated as "R&B" and later "Contemporary Urban".

During these years (from about 1971 to 1976) I use to hook up a
reel-to-reel tape recorder to a clock radio and tape a local top 40
station for 3 or 4 hours: A little musical drift net. I'd do this 2 or
3 times a year. Then I'd pore over it for a week or two finding which
of the tunes that "people liked" I could tolerate enough to work up for
performance in the band du jour. So I managed to get to most of the
nooks and crannies of these lists. Ah, good times...

Les Cargill

2015-01-25 16:58:27 UTC

On Saturday, January 24, 2015 at 9:09:08 PM UTC-5, gtr wrote:> By the
way, for pop music in general, I'm wondering if 1972 wasn't the> worst

Post by gtr
http://tinyurl.com/qb3gv76

I'd have to look at other years re: that, but there are some REALLY
good songs on this list, and one has personal connection for me.
#12-Looking Glass-Brandy (You're A Fine Girl) was written and sung by
my cousin Elliot Lurie, four years older than me, who'd play acoustic
guitar and sing for family gatherings after holidays meals when I was
a kid, and was the direct influence on my becoming a professional
guitarist. Haven't seen him in decades, but remember he always had a
big smile for me; a real nice older cousin.

I do not think you caught the actual meaning of the song, then.

I have a neice named Brandy, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was due
to that song. Her father was in the Navy ... forever, and most of that
was on ship duty. Her parents were quite married.

"My life, my love and my lady, is the sea." It's a song about people
who have to work away from their families, or that can't even establish
families because of how they work.

Post by gtr
But that's just one example that illustrates that there is no one "rock"
just like there is no one "popular". My little brother at age 10
thought that "Snoopy Versus the Red Baron" by the Royal Gaurdsman was
the greatest song ever and so he played it endlessly until everybody in
the family wanted to kill him. I had done the same 10 years before with
Burl Ives and the "Big Rock Candy Mountain", until my sister broke the
record. Still, both outrages have now been converted to pleasant
memories of life in the boozum of fambly.
It's a difficult a call for which crap is the crappiest, though we've
all got our favorites. "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face", may be
the longest most lugubrious dirge of my lifetime(s). It's the death
march of pop songs. But for overwrought melodrama, what tune could top
Nilsson's "Without You"? And right there, vying for honors in
turgidity, is "Nights in White Satin"
As with many such years, there are some songs that might not have been
so problematic on the first 30 listenings, but coming around the three-
or four-hundred mark, you you want to a move to a farm in Utah and stop
bathing. Few top "American Pie" for that honor.
The tunes I liked best from that year none of my white friends seem to
have ever heard: Betcha By Golly Wow, Everybody Plays the Fool, Back
Stabbers, and even Oh Girl. I'm unsure if these were on the Top 100
tunes list for those years, as I believe the black pop tunes were still
segregated as "R&B" and later "Contemporary Urban".
During these years (from about 1971 to 1976) I use to hook up a
reel-to-reel tape recorder to a clock radio and tape a local top 40
station for 3 or 4 hours: A little musical drift net. I'd do this 2 or
3 times a year. Then I'd pore over it for a week or two finding which
of the tunes that "people liked" I could tolerate enough to work up for
performance in the band du jour. So I managed to get to most of the
nooks and crannies of these lists. Ah, good times...

--
Les Cargill

gtr

2015-01-25 17:02:56 UTC

Post by Andrew Schulman
I'd have to look at other years re: that, but there are some REALLY
good songs on this list, and one has personal connection for me.
#12-Looking Glass-Brandy (You're A Fine Girl) was written and sung by
my cousin Elliot Lurie, four years older than me, who'd play acoustic
guitar and sing for family gatherings after holidays meals when I was
a kid, and was the direct influence on my becoming a professional
guitarist. Haven't seen him in decades, but remember he always had a
big smile for me; a real nice older cousin.

I do not think you caught the actual meaning of the song, then.

Oh but I do. Do you know the lyrics to Lilli Marlene? It too is
about a woman who loyally waits for her soldier to return.

Nevertheless, lyrics are like music, you can read into them what you like.

As I spent 25 years doing this, as have many hereabouts, I'm sure we
could have just as much fun with popular songs from any year. Over the
past 4 years I've spent a few thousand hours dredging the Hot 100 lists
form the 20's through 50's. It's more fun with songs that haven't
battered you from post to post throughout your life.

Les Cargill

2015-01-26 01:30:00 UTC

I do not think you caught the actual meaning of the song, then.

Oh but I do. Do you know the lyrics to Lilli Marlene? It too is about
a woman who loyally waits for her soldier to return.

Ah - never mind, then :) No, I am not familiar with Lilli Marlene.

Nevertheless, lyrics are like music, you can read into them what you like.

Of course. But I had to giggle when I found out my niece's name was
"Brandy". :)

As I spent 25 years doing this, as have many hereabouts, I'm sure we
could have just as much fun with popular songs from any year. Over the
past 4 years I've spent a few thousand hours dredging the Hot 100 lists
form the 20's through 50's. It's more fun with songs that haven't
battered you from post to post throughout your life.

--
Les Cargill

hank alrich

2015-01-26 02:20:32 UTC

I do not think you caught the actual meaning of the song, then.

Oh but I do. Do you know the lyrics to Lilli Marlene? It too is about
a woman who loyally waits for her soldier to return.

Ah - never mind, then :) No, I am not familiar with Lilli Marlene.

It's had quite a run, in one form or another.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lili_Marleen

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

gtr

2015-01-26 02:35:09 UTC

Post by Les Cargill
I do not think you caught the actual meaning of the song, then.

Oh but I do. Do you know the lyrics to Lilli Marlene? It too is about
a woman who loyally waits for her soldier to return.

Ah - never mind, then :) No, I am not familiar with Lilli Marlene.

I'd be surprised if, on review, you didn't discover that you are
familiar with Lili Marlene. I've seen a number of movies in which it is
prominently featured. It's almost as ubiquitous as many folk songs.

There's likely another 20 versions to review on youtube but here's one,
at least:

http://tinyurl.com/pqlrqk9

gtr

2015-01-26 02:36:54 UTC

Post by Les Cargill
I do not think you caught the actual meaning of the song, then.

Oh but I do. Do you know the lyrics to Lilli Marlene? It too is about
a woman who loyally waits for her soldier to return.

Ah - never mind, then :) No, I am not familiar with Lilli Marlene.

I'd be surprised if, on review, you didn't discover that you are
familiar with Lili Marlene. I've seen a number of movies in which it is
prominently featured. It's almost as ubiquitous as many folk songs.
There's likely another 20 versions to review on youtube but here's one,
http://tinyurl.com/pqlrqk9

I suppose it would have made better sense to provide one with the
English lyric, but I'm sure you can poke around and find one.

Tom Hendricks / Musea

2015-01-26 03:37:33 UTC

Happy Days was a tv show about the era of early rock - so though it came later, it seems to still work.

Let's talk about hits. I think the biggest year for bestsellers is 1965.

Look at the hits from 1955-1975, and compare with the last 20 years.
LIST OF HITS 1955-1975
http://musea.wordpress.com/2014/05/27/hit-song-challenge/

Andrew Schulman

2015-01-26 05:05:39 UTC

Post by Tom Hendricks / Musea
Happy Days was a tv show about the era of early rock - so though it came later, it seems to still work.
Let's talk about hits. I think the biggest year for bestsellers is 1965.
Look at the hits from 1955-1975, and compare with the last 20 years.
LIST OF HITS 1955-1975
http://musea.wordpress.com/2014/05/27/hit-song-challenge/

Tom, here's a fun question for you. What tune would you call the last standard? A standard being a song many people know and play. Personal definition for me is a song a NYC cabdriver will hum in the wee hours when you've finished playing a gig, put the guitar and amp in the trunk, he asked you where you just played and you told him, and he's therefore in a music mood.

Or something like that.

Andrew

Tom Hendricks / Musea

2015-01-30 02:06:41 UTC

The Christmas song, by Mariah Carey, called All I Want Is You. That is a song that will last IMO.

Andrew Schulman

2015-01-25 18:57:10 UTC

Post by gtr
Me and my crew loathed that specific song, Brandy, with unqualified
zeal. Of all the tunes in that particular top 40, that one was one of
the most deliciously horrible. In fact I read the top 12 from the list
to my wife yesterday and she too mentioned Brandy as one she truly
hated. For "homage to a whore" I still prefer Lilli Marlene; call me
old-fashioned.

Great To Reveal (ah, that must be what gtr means) what you, your crew, and and your wife loathed the most. I didn't mention it as a great song, just one that has a personal connection to me, and a family connection at that. It was an over the top song but, IMO, not horrible. In-my-opinion. Of course, if someone wants to know about me to make some sense of what my opinions about music are based on, they know my name and can go from there.

It's pretty obvious and much discussed over the years that the most obnoxious opinions on the internet are expressed by people who hide behind sockpuppets. Of the many people in that category, you are one of them. Just run of the mill, not even a particularly creative sockpuppet or spewer.

So unless you want to reveal your identity, and have a an intelligent conversation beyond revealing just how opinionated you can be, it's Buh-Bye Mr. Great To Reveal!

Andrew

gtr

2015-01-25 21:01:48 UTC

Great To Reveal (ah, that must be what gtr means)...

You must be having a senior moment, I mentioned already it was an
abbreviation for "guitar".

...what you, your crew, and and your wife loathed the most. I didn't
mention it as a great song, just one that has a personal connection to
me, and a family connection at that. It was an over the top song but,
IMO, not horrible.

I didn't accuse you of considering it "great". In fact, I didn't
discuss you at all. As mentioned upstream, everybody has their own
opinions. There are certainly many really horrible songs, with bad
singing pitch, marginal recording technique, adolescent lyrics and
myriad other aspects to consider. But in popular music, popular
culture plays a significant part. I have a relationship with tunes
from my youth, much as you might have had this one: Tunes we fell in
love to that marked a passage in life, say high school graduation or
marriage ("We've Only Just Begun") or some such; whether they were
"good" or "bad" wasn't relevant, they were simply an element of the
time. Brandy was apparently one of those for BOTH of us, but for
opposite reasons.

I see now that your reasons were noble, while mine were shameful.

In-my-opinion. Of course, if someone wants to know about me to make
some sense of what my opinions about music are based on, they know my
name and can go from there.
It's pretty obvious and much discussed over the years that the most
obnoxious opinions on the internet are expressed by people who hide
behind sockpuppets.

Obnoxious sockpuppets? You like Brandy, I don't. Don't hang yourself:
The pain will pass. For "obnoxious" the most suspect folk for me are
those who prefer to change the topic to discussing the participants.

Of the many people in that category, you are one of them. Just run of
the mill, not even a particularly creative sockpuppet or spewer.

There are also people who attack others personally for not sharing
their opinions; you're one of those.

So unless you want to reveal your identity, and have a an intelligent
conversation beyond revealing just how opinionated you can be, it's
Buh-Bye Mr. Great To Reveal!

If I used my real name you wouldn't get miffed about me pissing on
Brandy? If my lack of intelligence is problematic, if my opinion is
problematic: What--are they dissappear if I use my name on the
internet? I think not.

Andrew, I'm sorry your reactions are so problematic. I've enjoyed your
contributions, but didn't realize you are so quick to make things
personal. If others upset you because of opinions, nickname
construction, rhetorical style or anything else, I certainly endorse
killfiling them.

Andrew Schulman

2015-01-25 21:51:55 UTC

Andrew...I've enjoyed your
contributions...

Gee, gtr, I just got a little misty eyed. Really? You've enjoyed my contributions? Okay, we're pals now!

Best regards,

8-stg-gtr

Tom Hendricks / Musea

2015-01-26 03:33:24 UTC

Post by Andrew Schulman
I'd have to look at other years re: that, but there are some REALLY good songs on this list, and one has personal connection for me. #12-Looking Glass-Brandy (You're A Fine Girl) was written and sung by my cousin Elliot Lurie, four years older than me, who'd play acoustic guitar and sing for family gatherings after holidays meals when I was a kid, and was the direct influence on my becoming a professional guitarist. Haven't seen him in decades, but remember he always had a big smile for me; a real nice older cousin.
Andrew

Brandy is a fine song!

Andrew Schulman

2015-01-26 05:02:12 UTC

Post by Andrew Schulman
I'd have to look at other years re: that, but there are some REALLY good songs on this list, and one has personal connection for me. #12-Looking Glass-Brandy (You're A Fine Girl) was written and sung by my cousin Elliot Lurie, four years older than me, who'd play acoustic guitar and sing for family gatherings after holidays meals when I was a kid, and was the direct influence on my becoming a professional guitarist. Haven't seen him in decades, but remember he always had a big smile for me; a real nice older cousin.
Andrew

Brandy is a fine song!

And my cousin Elliot is a fine musician! After his band years he moved out to LA in 1985, became head of the music department at 20th Century Fox, and stayed in that end of the business for a long time. Haven't seen him in ages, all this has just inspired me to get in touch with him again!

Andrew

hank alrich

2015-01-25 05:27:10 UTC

Post by Andrew Schulman
It jumped the shark on May 8, 1970 IMHO.

If "Rock and Roll" referred to any one static concept, it could go into
marked decline. But it doesn't.

Well said.

Post by gtr
Pink Floyd, the Moody Blues, the
Flying Burrito Brothers, ELO, Creedence Clearwater Revival and King
Crimson once inhabited the same time period. Which one was the jumper
and which one the jumpee?
The only aural correlary between them seems to be that that their names
include vowels.

I see and hear "rock 'n' roll" as something distinct from "rock music",
perhaps a subset thereof. Creedence is closer to the former, the rest of
those you mentioned closer to the latter, excepting the Flying Burrito
Bros, a "country rock" band.

Fo' 'xample, "heavy metal", considered by most a form of rock music, is
rahter distant from Bill Haley.

I've been getting to hear Bill Kirchen quite a bit inthe last couple of
years, and he easily moves between many of those "forms".

Much of this terminology arises either in the minds of reviewers, or
marketing deparments.

(How could anything jump a shark before _Happy Days_?)

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

Andrew Schulman

2015-01-25 19:06:25 UTC

Post by hank alrich
Much of this terminology arises either in the minds of reviewers, or
marketing deparments.
(How could anything jump a shark before _Happy Days_?)

Two good points in a row Mr. Alrich, you're on a roll. (Especially about marketing departments.)

Mr. Schulman

Rick Ruskin

2015-01-25 20:27:23 UTC

On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 11:06:25 -0800 (PST), Andrew Schulman

Post by hank alrich
Much of this terminology arises either in the minds of reviewers, or
marketing deparments.
(How could anything jump a shark before _Happy Days_?)

Two good points in a row Mr. Alrich, you're on a roll. (Especially about marketing departments.)
Mr. Schulman

IMHO, the biggest shark jumper of them all is the person who started
this thread.

Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music- Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com

Andrew Schulman

2015-01-25 22:42:04 UTC

Post by Rick Ruskin
IMHO, the biggest shark jumper of them all is the person who started
this thread.
Rick Ruskin

Rick, you accidentally clicked on the wrong thread. You must be talking about "The Story Of Blind Matzoh Leftkowitz" thread.

Now calm down, Rick, just joking. I only attack gtr here and now even that's done because he won me over with kindness.

By the way, have you ever read this book: http://tinyurl.com/pofgbrg

It's TERRIFIC. Written by a great friend of mine, so caveat emptor. If you read it you'll understand organized crime in America much better. The apogee of the Mafia occurred when the Italians teamed up the the Jews in the 30s and 40s. They'd have these great parties - is true Blind Matzoh Leftkowitz played a lot of those? My Uncle Eddie was a gangster in Brooklyn (seriously) and I'd ask him but he's dead now. Of natural causes oddly enough.

And in conclusion, give my regards to Seattle. I lived there in 1980-81, Queen Anne and Capitol Hill.

Andrew

Steve Freides

2015-01-25 22:47:31 UTC

Post by Rick Ruskin
On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 11:06:25 -0800 (PST), Andrew Schulman

Post by hank alrich
Much of this terminology arises either in the minds of reviewers, or
marketing deparments.
(How could anything jump a shark before _Happy Days_?)

Two good points in a row Mr. Alrich, you're on a roll. (Especially
about marketing departments.)
Mr. Schulman

IMHO, the biggest shark jumper of them all is the person who started
this thread.
Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music- Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com

What's a shark jumper? I recall vaguely that it had to do with an
episode of a TV show, Happy Days, was it?

-S-

gtr

2015-01-25 23:02:07 UTC

Post by Steve Freides

Post by Rick Ruskin
On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 11:06:25 -0800 (PST), Andrew Schulman

Post by hank alrich
Much of this terminology arises either in the minds of reviewers, or
marketing deparments.
(How could anything jump a shark before _Happy Days_?)

Two good points in a row Mr. Alrich, you're on a roll. (Especially
about marketing departments.)
Mr. Schulman

IMHO, the biggest shark jumper of them all is the person who started
this thread.
Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music- Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com

What's a shark jumper? I recall vaguely that it had to do with an
episode of a TV show, Happy Days, was it?
-S-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark

don hindenach

2015-01-25 22:23:36 UTC

On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 23:27:10 -0600

Post by Andrew Schulman
It jumped the shark on May 8, 1970 IMHO.

If "Rock and Roll" referred to any one static concept, it could go into
marked decline. But it doesn't.

Well said.

I see and hear "rock 'n' roll" as something distinct from "rock music",
perhaps a subset thereof. Creedence is closer to the former, the rest of
those you mentioned closer to the latter, excepting the Flying Burrito
Bros, a "country rock" band.
Fo' 'xample, "heavy metal", considered by most a form of rock music, is
rahter distant from Bill Haley.
I've been getting to hear Bill Kirchen quite a bit inthe last couple of
years, and he easily moves between many of those "forms".
Much of this terminology arises either in the minds of reviewers, or
marketing deparments.
(How could anything jump a shark before _Happy Days_?)

Bill is indeed something else. He and I share the same birthday, and it's quite interesting when we in the same room...........

--
-donh-
donh at audiosys dot com

don hindenach

2015-01-25 22:25:57 UTC

On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 23:27:10 -0600

Post by Andrew Schulman
It jumped the shark on May 8, 1970 IMHO.

If "Rock and Roll" referred to any one static concept, it could go into
marked decline. But it doesn't.

Well said.

I see and hear "rock 'n' roll" as something distinct from "rock music",
perhaps a subset thereof. Creedence is closer to the former, the rest of
those you mentioned closer to the latter, excepting the Flying Burrito
Bros, a "country rock" band.
Fo' 'xample, "heavy metal", considered by most a form of rock music, is
rahter distant from Bill Haley.
I've been getting to hear Bill Kirchen quite a bit inthe last couple of
years, and he easily moves between many of those "forms".
Much of this terminology arises either in the minds of reviewers, or
marketing deparments.
(How could anything jump a shark before _Happy Days_?)

oh! If you know Bill then you also know Sarah Brown. Next time you see her tell her I still have that bass. (if she remembers my name, she will know what you are talking about)

--
-donh-
donh at audiosys dot com

Steve Daniels

2015-01-25 02:49:10 UTC

On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 16:50:22 -0800 (PST), against all advice, something

Post by Tom Hendricks / Musea
Comments?
https://musea.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/when-did-rock-and-roll-jump-the-shark/

It jumped the shark on May 8, 1970 IMHO.

"Suddenly, just before noon, as Wall Street types on lunch further
crowded the area, there was a big stir about 20 feet from us. A tight
column of dozens of guys wearing construction helmets with a couple
American flags was wading through the crowd. Almost immediately it became
clear that they were not just pushing protesters out of the way, but
slugging them, beating them to the ground and kicking them. (Some Wall
Streeters helped the injured. More joined the attacks.)"

more . . .
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/08/1297816/-May-8-1970-Violent-Backlash-at-Wall-Street

gtr

2015-01-25 07:44:30 UTC

Post by Steve Daniels
On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 16:50:22 -0800 (PST), against all advice, something

Post by Tom Hendricks / Musea
Comments?
https://musea.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/when-did-rock-and-roll-jump-the-shark/

It jumped the shark on May 8, 1970 IMHO.

Yes, the "Hard Hat Riot" happened on that date.

But additionally, May 8, 1970 was also the date the Beatles released
their last album, thoroughly strangled in it's crib by Phil Spector,
before being drowned and thrown off a cliff: "Let it Be". I certainly
wish he had let it be.

Andrew Schulman

2015-01-25 14:27:05 UTC

Post by gtr
But additionally, May 8, 1970 was also the date the Beatles released
their last album, thoroughly strangled in it's crib by Phil Spector,
before being drowned and thrown off a cliff: "Let it Be". I certainly
wish he had let it be.

Yes, that's what I was referring to. And I couldn't agree more about what Phil Spector did. The de-Spectored version of Let It Be (the song) is quite beautiful.

Andrew

Tom Hendricks / Musea

2015-01-26 03:30:17 UTC

Post by Andrew Schulman
It jumped the shark on May 8, 1970 IMHO.
Andrew

Cause of Let it Be release by the Beatles?

I tend to agree. For me it was about 15 years from mid 50's to 1970 Beatle breakup.

There was an insurgence in the 80's but ....

Andrew Schulman

2015-01-26 04:56:32 UTC

Post by Andrew Schulman
It jumped the shark on May 8, 1970 IMHO.
Andrew

Cause of Let it Be release by the Beatles?

Yep.

Andrew

dsi1

2015-01-26 19:56:08 UTC

Post by Andrew Schulman
It jumped the shark on May 8, 1970 IMHO.
Andrew

Cause of Let it Be release by the Beatles?

Yep.
Andrew

That's the only Beatles record I have. I played that disk to death!
OTOH, I don't think you can say that their last album could be "jumping
the shark" because that implies a slow fade from there on. "Magical
Mystery Tour" could be seen as a shark jumper. The Yellow Submarine
movie? Definitely!

The Fonz has spoken!

Nil

2015-01-27 02:32:13 UTC

Post by dsi1
That's the only Beatles record I have. I played that disk to
death! OTOH, I don't think you can say that their last album could
be "jumping the shark" because that implies a slow fade from there
on. "Magical Mystery Tour" could be seen as a shark jumper. The
Yellow Submarine movie? Definitely!

You might or might not know that "Let It Be" was not The Beatles's last
album. Yes, it was the last one released, but "Abbey Road" was recorded
after LIB, though released before it. Most people think AR is an
improvement over LIB, so the "jumping the shark" idea doesn't really
apply here.

Andrew Schulman

2015-01-27 02:54:57 UTC

Post by Nil
You might or might not know that "Let It Be" was not The Beatles's last
album. Yes, it was the last one released, but "Abbey Road" was recorded
after LIB, though released before it. Most people think AR is an
improvement over LIB, so the "jumping the shark" idea doesn't really
apply here.

Good point, and yes, AR is WAY better than LIB and was indeed the last thing recorded by the 4 Beatles. (Beatles trivia, the last song recorded, sans Lennon, was "I Me Mine", finished on January, 3 1970). I'm the one that used the date of the LIB release in 1970 for the shark jump but from strictly a personal perspective. I saw where rock and r&r was going, felt the Beatles had done for the overall genre what Bach did for the fugue and Beethoven did for the symphony, and moved on to other things, jazz first and then back to classical which I'd started with. At this point I've become a specialist, the only music I play now is the "The Monkees" genre.

Andrew

dsi1

2015-01-27 04:09:37 UTC

Post by Nil

I can see how most people would think that Abbey Road is the better
album but AR is the usual Beatles explosion of sound that's kind of
overwhelming to my ears and gets me all fustigated. Me like simple.

Andrew Schulman

2015-01-27 04:32:39 UTC

Okay, let's do Best Beatle Album:

Rubber Soul.

Andrew

Nil

2015-01-27 05:59:13 UTC

Post by Andrew Schulman
Rubber Soul.

A Hard Days Night.

Andrew Schulman

2015-01-27 18:09:08 UTC

On 26 Jan 2015, Andrew Schulman wrote in

Post by Andrew Schulman
Rubber Soul.

A Hard Days Night.

That's my #2. It's a really tough call and I should make a correction to what I wrote above - I should have written "Favorite", not "Best".

But I do think there is a best song, musically and lyrically, which most people I know agree with: "You Know My Name (Look Up the Number)"

Andrew

Jonathan

2015-01-29 21:20:21 UTC

Post by Andrew Schulman
Rubber Soul.
Andrew

I love that album as well, but I feel like they made a quantum leap from Rubber Soul to Revolver in the beauty and sophistication of their music.

Andrew Schulman

2015-01-29 22:16:55 UTC

Post by Jonathan

Post by Andrew Schulman
Rubber Soul.
Andrew

I love that album as well, but I feel like they made a quantum leap from Rubber Soul to Revolver in the beauty and sophistication of their music.

Both great albums. Back in 1989 I did a concert in London and via a friend had a tour with the director of Abbey Road Studios (by that time the name had been officially changed to that) through the whole facility. Besides the constantly growing change in their compositional and other musical skills there is another well known change from Rubber Soul to Revolver: Geoff Emerick took over chief engineer duties from Norman "Hurricane" Smith and Emerick was a brilliant innovator. Also, a big change, automatic double tracking (ADT) which was invented by engineer Ken Townsend and used for the first time in Revolver. There was something else I could never really put my finger on until the tour I had; most of Revolver was recorded in Studio 3 the small one. Most of most Beatles albums were recorded in medium sized Studio 2, and then some things in the cavernous Studio 1 (which can be heard in full glory in the reprise of Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (the song).

Yes, a quantum leap. The reason I prefer RS slightly is it is the last one closest to when they were still playing live a lot and you can hear that, and a few of the songs being ultimate favorites, especially In My Life which makes such a fantastic guitar instrumental.

Andrew

P.S. A week after this photo was taken in Studio 2 in 1989, looking as it did in the Beatles era, it was completely remodeled. I was glad I'd taken my camera along. By the way Jonathan, how do you like the socks? Beatlesque?

http://tinyurl.com/lqewv6k

Jonathan

2015-01-30 15:40:41 UTC

Post by Jonathan

Post by Andrew Schulman
Rubber Soul.
Andrew

I love that album as well, but I feel like they made a quantum leap from Rubber Soul to Revolver in the beauty and sophistication of their music.

Both great albums. Back in 1989 I did a concert in London and via a friend had a tour with the director of Abbey Road Studios (by that time the name had been officially changed to that) through the whole facility. Besides the constantly growing change in their compositional and other musical skills there is another well known change from Rubber Soul to Revolver: Geoff Emerick took over chief engineer duties from Norman "Hurricane" Smith and Emerick was a brilliant innovator. Also, a big change, automatic double tracking (ADT) which was invented by engineer Ken Townsend and used for the first time in Revolver. There was something else I could never really put my finger on until the tour I had; most of Revolver was recorded in Studio 3 the small one. Most of most Beatles albums were recorded in medium sized Studio 2, and then some things in the cavernous Studio 1 (which can be heard in full glory in the reprise of Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (the song).
Yes, a quantum leap. The reason I prefer RS slightly is it is the last one closest to when they were still playing live a lot and you can hear that, and a few of the songs being ultimate favorites, especially In My Life which makes such a fantastic guitar instrumental.
Andrew
P.S. A week after this photo was taken in Studio 2 in 1989, looking as it did in the Beatles era, it was completely remodeled. I was glad I'd taken my camera along. By the way Jonathan, how do you like the socks? Beatlesque?
http://tinyurl.com/lqewv6k

Nice! I'll bet a lot of famous musicians sat on that chair at one point or another. Maybe even one of the Fab Four!

Andrew Schulman

2015-01-30 19:01:14 UTC

Post by Jonathan
Nice! I'll bet a lot of famous musicians sat on that chair at one point or another. Maybe even one of the Fab Four!

Well, I remember the energy in the room at that moment and it sure did feel like spirits were hovering.

(Now you say, "Was there a bottle of Jack Daniels hanging from a rope over your head?")

Sorry Jonathan, I just can't take any chances with you.

:-)

Andrew

Jonathan

2015-01-31 13:16:41 UTC

Post by Jonathan
Nice! I'll bet a lot of famous musicians sat on that chair at one point or another. Maybe even one of the Fab Four!

Well, I remember the energy in the room at that moment and it sure did feel like spirits were hovering.
(Now you say, "Was there a bottle of Jack Daniels hanging from a rope over your head?")
Sorry Jonathan, I just can't take any chances with you.
:-)
Andrew

I would have at least gone with something British, like Beefeater. :)

Andrew Schulman

2015-01-31 21:39:31 UTC

Post by Jonathan
I would have at least gone with something British, like Beefeater. :)

Assuming (why not) that this thread did NOT jump the shark with the first post, at what point would you say it did?

And then there are those that say, with good reason, that Help! was their best album.

And this terrific live version of the song, also on the Anthology DVDs, with classic Lennon stage presence:

Andrew

Al Evans

2015-02-01 12:34:43 UTC

Post by Andrew Schulman
Assuming (why not) that this thread did NOT jump the shark with the first
post, at what point would you say it did?

I would say it was at the point where it turned into a thread about
people's favorite Beatles albums.

As for rock n roll, I think it has "jumped the shark" every time it could,
from the beginning.

--Al Evans--

Andrew Schulman

2015-02-01 14:18:03 UTC

Post by Al Evans
I would say it was at the point where it turned into a thread about
people's favorite Beatles albums.

Al, it's a pleasure as always playing straight man to you...not that there's anything wrong with that.

Post by Al Evans
As for rock n roll, I think it has "jumped the shark" every time it could,
from the beginning.

So you're saying that's a good thing?

Andrew

gtr

2015-02-01 18:06:19 UTC

Post by Al Evans
I would say it was at the point where it turned into a thread about
people's favorite Beatles albums.

Al, it's a pleasure as always playing straight man to you...not that
there's anything wrong with that.

Post by Al Evans
As for rock n roll, I think it has "jumped the shark" every time it could,
from the beginning.

So you're saying that's a good thing?

Apprently in common parlance hereabouts the phrase "jumped the shark"
now means "don't like". It does make life simpler for all these fine
gradations and turns of phrase to simply mean "good" and "bad".

Andrew Schulman

2015-02-01 19:12:12 UTC

Post by gtr
Apprently in common parlance hereabouts the phrase "jumped the shark"
now means "don't like". It does make life simpler for all these fine
gradations and turns of phrase to simply mean "good" and "bad".

It would make sense to say you don't like something that has jumped the shark, no?

Andrew

gtr

2015-02-01 23:13:05 UTC

It would make sense to say you don't like something that has jumped the shark, no?

It depends on how the phrase is used. When an artist has "jumped the
shark" the way Rod Stewart did, from hoarse-rock to "The American
Songbook", I can at least generally listen to the latter. So in that
case a shark-jump would mean "good" to me and "bad" to lovers of
hoarse-rock.

Andrew Schulman

2015-02-02 01:27:24 UTC

Post by gtr
It depends on how the phrase is used. When an artist has "jumped the
shark" the way Rod Stewart did, from hoarse-rock to "The American
Songbook", I can at least generally listen to the latter. So in that
case a shark-jump would mean "good" to me and "bad" to lovers of
hoarse-rock.

Wiki: "The usage of "jump the shark" has subsequently broadened beyond television, indicating the moment when a brand, design, franchise or creative effort's evolution declines."

So I wouldn't agree with anyone saying Stewart jumped the shark in the example you give, which is what you are saying regarding your own view of his creative transition. And I think to apply it to as a diverse a genre as rock and roll simply doesn't work for the very reason of it's diversity. So in a way, Rick Ruskin's post was correct, which means Al Evans was either wrong, or funny in a way that should be an inspiration to Jonathan's the world over.

Sincerely*,

Andrew

*Ha!

gtr

2015-02-02 01:54:59 UTC

On Sunday, February 1, 2015 at 6:13:07 PM UTC-5, gtr wrote:> It depends
on how the phrase is used. When an artist has "jumped the> shark" the
way Rod Stewart did, from hoarse-rock to "The American> Songbook", I
can at least generally listen to the latter. So in that> case a
shark-jump would mean "good" to me and "bad" to lovers of> hoarse-rock.
Wiki: "The usage of "jump the shark" has subsequently broadened beyond
television, indicating the moment when a brand, design, franchise or
creative effort's evolution declines."
So I wouldn't agree with anyone saying Stewart jumped the shark in the
example you give, which is what you are saying regarding your own view
of his creative transition.

But surely you can see how another might: The ultimate "decline" for a
rock artist is to start catering to the "adults" in the room. To some
this is the ultimate in decline. Especially coupling it with doing
shows in Vegas.

And I think to apply it to as a diverse a genre as rock and roll simply
doesn't work for the very reason of it's diversity.

Almost exactly what I said upstream somewheres.

So in a way, Rick Ruskin's post was correct, which means Al Evans was
either wrong, or funny in a way that should be an inspiration to
Jonathan's the world over.

I've already forgotten what he said...

Steve Daniels

2015-02-02 22:21:33 UTC

On Sun, 1 Feb 2015 17:54:59 -0800, against all advice, something

And a Greatest Hits album.

gtr

2015-02-03 17:14:07 UTC

Hmm. Seems that Dylan's Croak-Rock has now jumped the shark and landed
on his new Rod Stewart type album, "Shadows in the Night", released
today. I guess he looked at Stewart's sales numbers and couldn't deny
it was a good marketing model... or, er... conceptual approach.

The song list:

I'm a Fool to Want You
The Night We Called It a Day
Stay with Me
Autumn Leaves
Why Try to Change Me Now
Some Enchanted Evening
Full Moon and Empty Arms
Where Are You?
What'll I Do
That Lucky Old Sun

I'm surprised that me and Dylan, after some 45 years, are back on the
same page. I just heard Autumn Leaes on NPR and it's a total dirge.

don hindenach

2015-02-06 23:54:02 UTC

On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 09:14:07 -0800

Hmm. Seems that Dylan's Croak-Rock has now jumped the shark and landed
on his new Rod Stewart type album, "Shadows in the Night", released
today. I guess he looked at Stewart's sales numbers and couldn't deny
it was a good marketing model... or, er... conceptual approach.
I'm a Fool to Want You
The Night We Called It a Day
Stay with Me
Autumn Leaves
Why Try to Change Me Now
Some Enchanted Evening
Full Moon and Empty Arms
Where Are You?
What'll I Do
That Lucky Old Sun
I'm surprised that me and Dylan, after some 45 years, are back on the
same page. I just heard Autumn Leaes on NPR and it's a total dirge.

Oh.
My.
Gawd.

really?

I believe you, but ... really?

--
-donh-
donh at audiosys dot com

hank alrich

2015-02-07 04:05:03 UTC

Post by don hindenach
On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 09:14:07 -0800

Hmm. Seems that Dylan's Croak-Rock has now jumped the shark and landed
on his new Rod Stewart type album, "Shadows in the Night", released
today. I guess he looked at Stewart's sales numbers and couldn't deny
it was a good marketing model... or, er... conceptual approach.
I'm a Fool to Want You
The Night We Called It a Day
Stay with Me
Autumn Leaves
Why Try to Change Me Now
Some Enchanted Evening
Full Moon and Empty Arms
Where Are You?
What'll I Do
That Lucky Old Sun
I'm surprised that me and Dylan, after some 45 years, are back on the
same page. I just heard Autumn Leaes on NPR and it's a total dirge.

Oh.
My.
Gawd.
really?
I believe you, but ... really?

I upsetted some peoples on Farcebuk when I said this was high up on my
list of ablums I hope never to hear.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

Andrew Schulman

2015-02-07 04:21:13 UTC

Post by hank alrich
I upsetted some peoples on Farcebuk when I said this was high up on my
list of ablums I hope never to hear.

I heard some of it yesterday on WNYC-FM comparing doing an A/B with Dylan and Sinatra. Worth a listen.

A.

hank alrich

2015-02-07 05:21:23 UTC

Post by hank alrich
I upsetted some peoples on Farcebuk when I said this was high up on my
list of ablums I hope never to hear.

I heard some of it yesterday on WNYC-FM comparing doing an A/B with Dylan
and Sinatra. Worth a listen.
A.

I take your word for it. I'll take Tony Bennett. I appreciate Sinatra's
skill. His timing is marvelous. I do not care to listen to him, either.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

Andrew Schulman

2015-02-07 07:53:05 UTC

Post by hank alrich
I take your word for it. I'll take Tony Bennett. I appreciate Sinatra's
skill. His timing is marvelous. I do not care to listen to him, either.

Dylan used his current band, not everything worked but some was quite good.

My most favorite recent Dylan, I love everything about the music and the video too, great interaction with the young couple:

don hindenach

2015-02-08 00:34:54 UTC

On Fri, 6 Feb 2015 23:21:23 -0600

Post by hank alrich
I upsetted some peoples on Farcebuk when I said this was high up on my
list of ablums I hope never to hear.

I heard some of it yesterday on WNYC-FM comparing doing an A/B with Dylan
and Sinatra. Worth a listen.
A.

I take your word for it. I'll take Tony Bennett. I appreciate Sinatra's
skill. His timing is marvelous. I do not care to listen to him, either.

About 13 years back I took family and friends to see Dylan up in Michigan somewhere. Long drive and we were in the cheap seats. His stage timing with the band was horrible and every song in the main part of the concert fell flat for me. I swear I could see the sidemen dying up there. They paced back and forth and evidenced various forms of frustration as they followed him as he staggered thru the tunes. If I was waaayy closer to the stage than we sere sitting I would have been screaming "Just fucking TAKE it, dammit!". Finally on the second encore, they apparently decided it didn't matter any more and the took over and some music got pulled from the cacophony. There was a third one, thank goodness. That was the high point of the evening. Then a deer ran in front of the car on the way home . . . . . . . .

--
-donh-
donh at audiosys dot com

Tom Hendricks / Musea

2015-02-07 15:23:50 UTC

My problem with this is Dylan's refusal to TRY to sing well.
First you can tell that he does not breathe correctly and runs out of air at the end of many lines. This also causes some pitchiness. Then too he either smoked too long or still smokes, and that is horrible for singers.

I see a lot of talk about how older singers have lost their voices. There is no need to. Just a little basic care and you can sing all your life. I just released a massive 10 year music project of 150 songs recorded from when I was 55- now*. I think I sound virtually the same as when I was in my 20's.
(*Hunkasuaurs and His Pet Dog Guitar, streaming on all major music sites).

Les Cargill

2015-02-07 04:31:33 UTC

Post by don hindenach
On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 09:14:07 -0800

Hmm. Seems that Dylan's Croak-Rock has now jumped the shark and landed
on his new Rod Stewart type album, "Shadows in the Night", released
today. I guess he looked at Stewart's sales numbers and couldn't deny
it was a good marketing model... or, er... conceptual approach.
I'm a Fool to Want You
The Night We Called It a Day
Stay with Me
Autumn Leaves
Why Try to Change Me Now
Some Enchanted Evening
Full Moon and Empty Arms
Where Are You?
What'll I Do
That Lucky Old Sun
I'm surprised that me and Dylan, after some 45 years, are back on the
same page. I just heard Autumn Leaes on NPR and it's a total dirge.

Oh.
My.
Gawd.
really?
I believe you, but ... really?

I upsetted some peoples on Farcebuk when I said this was high up on my
list of ablums I hope never to hear.

I dunno.

Is "Some Enchanted Evening" a duet with Harrison Ford?

--
Les Cargill

hank alrich

2015-02-07 05:21:23 UTC

Post by Les Cargill
I dunno.
Is "Some Enchanted Evening" a duet with Harrison Ford?

One of the most hilarious moments in my musical life attends that very
song in a Lake Almanor Country Club setting where a violinist, whom I
accompanied, and a classical guitarist, with whom I would become good
friends, were ringers, with our very short sets interspersing <sic!>
"interesting" performances by some local fascinators.

A gentlemen who was likely the age I am now stepped onto the floor and
delivered the most over-the-top rendition of that song conceivable, to
the point that the fiddler and I barely survived without blowing our
chortles all over the buffet. I cannot imagine a parody more successful
than his. Just the opening line still gives me pause.

There, too, I did meet a young man packing a Takmine Martinesque guitar
shaped object. <snuck back on topic, perhaps a first for me> He and a
buddy comprised a beginner's duo, the pride of the soccer mom set.

I had brought a 1957 000-28 (no, really). In post event conversation the
young man let me know he had been playing a vintage Takemine.

The thing about country club gigs is that they pay well.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

gtr

2015-02-07 15:13:23 UTC

Post by hank alrich
The thing about country club gigs is that they pay well.

I've never known them not to provide laughs too.

Steve Daniels

2015-02-02 01:42:08 UTC

On Sun, 1 Feb 2015 11:12:12 -0800 (PST), against all advice, something

It would make sense to say you don't like something that has jumped the shark, no?

The Shark Jump is the apex of the bell curve of quality.

Tom Hendricks / Musea

2015-02-02 03:38:48 UTC

Post by Steve Daniels
The Shark Jump is the apex of the bell curve of quality.

1970 for me.

hank alrich

2015-02-02 05:30:16 UTC

It would make sense to say you don't like something that has jumped the shark, no?
Andrew

Unless, of course, one now and then fancies a bit of shark jumping,
(NTTAWWT, assuming it's consensual for both parties). Could be just the
thing to perk up a beach party.

I assume the shark should be very well fed ahead of time, and that one
should not dawdle.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

Andrew Schulman

2015-02-02 06:43:05 UTC

I think I have the answer. This ENTIRE thread jumped the shark.

Sincerely yours,

Andrew

Rick Ruskin

2015-02-01 19:44:05 UTC

Post by Al Evans
I would say it was at the point where it turned into a thread about
people's favorite Beatles albums.

Al, it's a pleasure as always playing straight man to you...not that
there's anything wrong with that.

Post by Al Evans
As for rock n roll, I think it has "jumped the shark" every time it could,
from the beginning.

So you're saying that's a good thing?

More like "taking an idea to a ridiculous extreme."

Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music- Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com

gtr

2015-02-01 23:14:05 UTC

Post by Rick Ruskin

More like "taking an idea to a ridiculous extreme."

Ridiculous but reflective of actual usage. Skimming the thread
upstream you'll find that a shark-jump doesn't have a lot of consistent
meaning from user to user.

hank alrich

2015-02-02 08:44:04 UTC

Post by Rick Ruskin

More like "taking an idea to a ridiculous extreme."

Ridiculous but reflective of actual usage. Skimming the thread
upstream you'll find that a shark-jump doesn't have a lot of consistent
meaning from user to user.

What else would you expect? In a crowd like this, a bunch of ol' shark
jumpers from way back, individual styles are inevitable.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

Tom from Texas

2015-02-01 21:54:23 UTC

Post by Al Evans

Post by Andrew Schulman
Assuming (why not) that this thread did NOT jump the shark with the first
post, at what point would you say it did?

I would say it was at the point where it turned into a thread about
people's favorite Beatles albums.
As for rock n roll, I think it has "jumped the shark" every time it could,
from the beginning.
--Al Evans--

There's a line in "Mack the Knife" about a shark. Could that be it?

Tom (going for the obscure) from Texas

hank alrich

2015-02-02 08:44:05 UTC

Post by Tom from Texas

Post by Al Evans

Post by Andrew Schulman
Assuming (why not) that this thread did NOT jump the shark with the first
post, at what point would you say it did?

I would say it was at the point where it turned into a thread about
people's favorite Beatles albums.
As for rock n roll, I think it has "jumped the shark" every time it could,
from the beginning.
--Al Evans--

There's a line in "Mack the Knife" about a shark. Could that be it?
Tom (going for the obscure) from Texas

You show up late, again, and take a stab in the dark?? There's something
fishy about your whole story.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

Les Cargill

2015-01-30 18:47:14 UTC

Post by Jonathan

Post by Andrew Schulman
Rubber Soul.
Andrew

I love that album as well, but I feel like they made a quantum leap
from Rubber Soul to Revolver in the beauty and sophistication of
their music.

Both great albums. Back in 1989 I did a concert in London and via a
friend had a tour with the director of Abbey Road Studios (by that
time the name had been officially changed to that) through the whole
facility. Besides the constantly growing change in their
compositional and other musical skills there is another well known
change from Rubber Soul to Revolver: Geoff Emerick took over chief
engineer duties from Norman "Hurricane" Smith and Emerick was a
brilliant innovator. Also, a big change, automatic double tracking
(ADT) which was invented by engineer Ken Townsend and used for the
first time in Revolver. There was something else I could never really
put my finger on until the tour I had; most of Revolver was recorded
in Studio 3 the small one. Most of most Beatles albums were recorded
in medium sized Studio 2, and then some things in the cavernous
Studio 1 (which can be heard in full glory in the reprise of Sgt.
Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (the song).
Yes, a quantum leap. The reason I prefer RS slightly is it is the
last one closest to when they were still playing live a lot and you
can hear that, and a few of the songs being ultimate favorites,
especially In My Life which makes such a fantastic guitar
instrumental.

I've always thought the earliest stuff - that closest to their
span in Hamburg - sounded best. I think they needed to play
gigs; shame they simply couldn't.

They just had a massive rhythm guitar sound; that seems to have gotten
in the way later.

Post by Andrew Schulman
Andrew
P.S. A week after this photo was taken in Studio 2 in 1989, looking
as it did in the Beatles era, it was completely remodeled. I was glad
I'd taken my camera along. By the way Jonathan, how do you like the
socks? Beatlesque?
http://tinyurl.com/lqewv6k

--
Les Cargill

Andrew Schulman

2015-01-30 19:08:19 UTC

Post by Les Cargill
I've always thought the earliest stuff - that closest to their
span in Hamburg - sounded best. I think they needed to play
gigs; shame they simply couldn't.
Les Cargill

Probably best in that regard, as Nil said, was A Hard Day's Night.

Oh, and I just remembered about Rubber Soul, something I loved but didn't understand the reason for until years later, the bass sound. That's when Paul starting using the Rickenbacker bass. (Doubling the bass with one of them fuzzed on Think for Yourself was, as the kids say, Awesome!)

Andrew

Nil

2015-01-30 20:17:01 UTC

Post by Andrew Schulman
Probably best in that regard, as Nil said, was A Hard Day's Night.

I like that album because it seems to me to be right on the edge where
they were just an unstoppable, un-self-conscious force of nature and
when they started to become more arty and calculated. They had honed
their craft for years and as a rock band they were at their peak. I
love the arty stuff, too, but there was something in those early years
and records that was so full of youthful energy and joy that could
never have been manufactured and was never really duplicated again.

gtr

2015-01-27 14:54:52 UTC

Post by Nil

The sharking jumping is not applicable to the Beatles at all. The
phrase relates to a franchises vain attempt to continue to be popular
via increasing use of frivolous, irrelevant or garish devices. The
Beatles managed to avoid all this by exiting altogether. See Rod
Stewart for a "follow the market" approach to staying relevant: Five
albums of "American songbook" classics with semi-shlocky arrangements.
This was abandoning his previous approaches and repackaging himself for
another market. It seems to have worked well for him but doesn't for
everybody. Review any given year's debut of acts shifting to Las Vegas
to find the previous year's failures.

h***@gmail.com

2015-01-26 23:38:25 UTC

Post by Tom Hendricks / Musea
Comments?
https://musea.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/when-did-rock-and-roll-jump-the-shark/

Rock and Roll jumped the shark when "The Monkees" premiered in September 1966.

Tom from Texas

2015-01-27 14:07:05 UTC

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Tom Hendricks / Musea
Comments?
https://musea.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/when-did-rock-and-roll-jump-the-shark/

Rock and Roll jumped the shark when "The Monkees" premiered in September 1966.

Rock and roll won't die until the last Fender thin guitar pick has dropped to the floor. It isn't just the pros, it's all of us amateurs out here, too.

Tom (rockin' round the clock) from Texas

Tom Hendricks / Musea

2015-01-30 02:09:02 UTC

Post by Tom from Texas

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Tom Hendricks / Musea
Comments?
https://musea.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/when-did-rock-and-roll-jump-the-shark/

Rock and Roll jumped the shark when "The Monkees" premiered in September 1966.

Rock and roll won't die until the last Fender thin guitar pick has dropped to the floor. It isn't just the pros, it's all of us amateurs out here, too.
Tom (rockin' round the clock) from Texas

Big band isn't over either ... but it's over.

Andrew Schulman

2015-01-30 03:24:13 UTC

Post by Tom Hendricks / Musea
Big band isn't over either ... but it's over.

One of the last guys left standing:

http://vincegiordano.com

Les Cargill

2015-01-30 18:49:53 UTC

Post by Tom from Texas

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Tom Hendricks / Musea
Comments?
https://musea.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/when-did-rock-and-roll-jump-the-shark/

Rock and Roll jumped the shark when "The Monkees" premiered in September 1966.

Rock and roll won't die until the last Fender thin guitar pick has dropped to the floor. It isn't just the pros, it's all of us amateurs out here, too.
Tom (rockin' round the clock) from Texas

Big band isn't over either ... but it's over.

It's over there in Denton, five by five.

Them kids is kickin' ass and takin' names.

--
Les Cargill

Tom Hendricks / Musea

2015-02-01 01:42:31 UTC

Post by Tom Hendricks / Musea
Big band isn't over either ... but it's over.

It's over there in Denton, five by five.
http://youtu.be/MR_rb7vsi6Q
Them kids is kickin' ass and takin' names.
--
Les Cargill

Les, The One O'clock Lab Band usually records at the same studio I did for my last couple of CD's, Crystal Clear Recording in Dallas. They are indeed very good.

Andrew Schulman

2015-02-08 07:21:07 UTC

Post by Tom Hendricks / Musea
Comments?
https://musea.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/when-did-rock-and-roll-jump-the-shark/

Have we decided if Rock n Roll has Jumped the Shark? I can't tell from this thread.

Andrew

Steve Daniels

2015-02-08 07:47:01 UTC

On Sat, 7 Feb 2015 23:21:07 -0800 (PST), against all advice, something

Post by Tom Hendricks / Musea
Comments?
https://musea.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/when-did-rock-and-roll-jump-the-shark/

Have we decided if Rock n Roll has Jumped the Shark? I can't tell from this thread.

First, we need to define Rock & Roll.

That should take a while.

Rick Ruskin

2015-02-08 07:53:31 UTC

Post by Steve Daniels
On Sat, 7 Feb 2015 23:21:07 -0800 (PST), against all advice, something

Post by Tom Hendricks / Musea
Comments?
https://musea.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/when-did-rock-and-roll-jump-the-shark/

Have we decided if Rock n Roll has Jumped the Shark? I can't tell from this thread.

First, we need to define Rock & Roll.
That should take a while.

If it makes you think about sex, it's Rock & Roll.

Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music- Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com

Andrew Schulman

2015-02-08 14:28:22 UTC