FX for Nylon to sound like Steel?

[John]

What sort of effects would make nylon classical guitar sound more like
a steel string? The nylon sound could come either from a piezo pickup
or from a mic.
Thanks,
John

[foldedpath]

Post by John
What sort of effects would make nylon classical guitar sound more like
a steel string? The nylon sound could come either from a piezo pickup
or from a mic.
Thanks,
John

That's an uphill battle, because the sustain and note envelope will never
be the same as steel strings. It might be better to just go with the
strengths of the nylon string sound, and then get a steel string guitar if
you need that different sound.

If you really have to do this, I'd start with a good compressor... not a
floor pedal unit, a good rackmount compressor like FMR's RNC model.
Experiment with the settings to see if you can get a bit more sustain,
without killing off all your dynamics. You'll probably want to enhance the
highs, which sound comparitively dull on nylon strings. Instead of EQ, I'd
try doing that with the BBE enhancer effect after the compressor. That will
brighten up your highs without sounding quite as artificial as high EQ
adjustment can sound. All of this won't sound exactly like a steel string,
and it will really sound like crap if you over-do it. But a little bit of
this treatment might get you a little closer to the steel string sound.

[David Kilpatrick]

Post by foldedpath

Post by John
What sort of effects would make nylon classical guitar sound more like
a steel string? The nylon sound could come either from a piezo pickup
or from a mic.
Thanks,
John

That's an uphill battle, because the sustain and note envelope will never
be the same as steel strings. It might be better to just go with the
strengths of the nylon string sound, and then get a steel string guitar if
you need that different sound.
If you really have to do this, I'd start with a good compressor... not a
floor pedal unit, a good rackmount compressor like FMR's RNC model.
Experiment with the settings to see if you can get a bit more sustain,
without killing off all your dynamics. You'll probably want to enhance the
highs, which sound comparitively dull on nylon strings. Instead of EQ, I'd
try doing that with the BBE enhancer effect after the compressor. That will
brighten up your highs without sounding quite as artificial as high EQ
adjustment can sound. All of this won't sound exactly like a steel string,
and it will really sound like crap if you over-do it. But a little bit of
this treatment might get you a little closer to the steel string sound.

Have a listen to 'Ropes of Sand' on
http://www.soundclick.com/davidkilpatrick

This is a fairly processed Lowden S25J nylon - under saddle EMG pickup,
Trace preamp with scooped shaping, reverb etc. The lead line is not
exactly like steel (indeed, you can't get airy jangle from nylon no
matter what you do) but it's a decent sustained and bright effect.

The biggest difference is in the strings. Change to extra high tension.
The brightest trebles are flamenco, or Savarez plastic filament wound
(noisy and odd feeling but brilliant), or the ones I use now - Aquila
Alchemia Nylgut High Tension (www.aquilacorde.com or .it). The Aquila
strings are unlike any I've ever used and impart a brilliant, sustaining
treble to a classical guitar whether plugged in or not. So far I've not
made a recording with them, only used one set, due to order more.

David

[Mike brown]

Post by David Kilpatrick
Have a listen to 'Ropes of Sand' on
http://www.soundclick.com/davidkilpatrick
This is a fairly processed Lowden S25J nylon - under saddle EMG pickup,
Trace preamp with scooped shaping, reverb etc. The lead line is not
exactly like steel (indeed, you can't get airy jangle from nylon no
matter what you do) but it's a decent sustained and bright effect.
The biggest difference is in the strings. Change to extra high tension.
The brightest trebles are flamenco, or Savarez plastic filament wound
(noisy and odd feeling but brilliant), or the ones I use now - Aquila
Alchemia Nylgut High Tension (www.aquilacorde.com or .it). The Aquila
strings are unlike any I've ever used and impart a brilliant, sustaining
treble to a classical guitar whether plugged in or not. So far I've not
made a recording with them, only used one set, due to order more.
David

David.

That

www.aquilacorde.com

site is excellent, thanks for posting it.

I won't be using it at the moment, but I have a very old English classical
guitar for which I have never found strings that completely satisfied me.

I've used Savarez Yellow Card (extra high tension) for years, but will
certainly try some of the various Aquila types in due course.

MJRB

[Al Carruth]

You could go the 'all natural; route, and switch to Thomastic "S" series
classical strings. These have a core of fine steel wire rope, even on the high
E, but are designed to have the same overall tension as 'normal' nylon strings.
They're sort of expensive, but they will give your classical guitar that steel
sound.

Alan Carruth / Luthier

[David Kilpatrick]

Post by Al Carruth
You could go the 'all natural; route, and switch to Thomastic "S" series
classical strings. These have a core of fine steel wire rope, even on the high
E, but are designed to have the same overall tension as 'normal' nylon strings.
They're sort of expensive, but they will give your classical guitar that steel
sound.

Oh no they won't... (all reply: oh yes they will!)

I've tried them and what the actually do is make it sound slightly like
a banjo. It isn't a nylon sound, and it is certainly not a conventional
steel sound either. kind of dark and twangy.

David

[Al Carruth]

David Kilpatrick wrote:

<<I've tried them and what the actually do is make it sound slightly like
a banjo. >>

OK. What I should have said was that the strings themselves have a 'steel'
sound, rather than a 'nylon' or 'gut' one. How they will sound on your
particular instrument will depend on the instrument. I've put them on a few of
my guitars and they've sounded like steel strings, although not exactly like a
'real' steel string guitar.

There are some fairly important acoustical differences between boxes designed
for steel and nylon strings. The different stings have different spectral
balances, and the instrument has to be designed to make a 'guitar' sound given
the differences in the input.

I suspect that one reason the Thomasic "S" strings have worked pretty well on
my guitars is that I tend to build more toward the heavier 'Hauser' style than
the lighter 'Spanish' school. I can see where those strings would make a light
top sound 'banjoey'.

Alan Carruth / Luthier
http://www.alcarruthluthier.com

[misifus]

Post by Al Carruth
You could go the 'all natural; route, and switch to Thomastic "S" series
classical strings. These have a core of fine steel wire rope, even on the high
E, but are designed to have the same overall tension as 'normal' nylon strings.
They're sort of expensive, but they will give your classical guitar that steel
sound.
Alan Carruth / Luthier

I've tried the Thomastik-Infeld Classical "C" strings and they
have a much more "steel-like" sound especially on the trebles.
Me, I didn't care for them. I like my nylon string guitars to
sound like nylon string guitars.

-Raf

[James Thompson]

Post by Al Carruth
You could go the 'all natural; route, and switch to Thomastic "S" series
classical strings. These have a core of fine steel wire rope, even on the high
E, but are designed to have the same overall tension as 'normal' nylon strings.
They're sort of expensive, but they will give your classical guitar that steel
sound.
Alan Carruth / Luthier

An old message stream but perhaps you're still out there, Alan. Glad you left the comment. I'm on nylon but occasionally miss the sound of steel strings.

I've ordered a set of Thomastik-Infield Classic S rope core strings for a Godin Multiac Grand Concert SA guitar. This is a nylon electric. Actually got if for comfort: tried a zillion guitars at price points from $300 to $2,000, at half the guitar shops in a city of 3 million. Hadn't played in 35 years, have osteoarthritis in my fingers and couldn't make chords work on anything steel. Still had the Ovation but it was useless to me: too narrow, fingers weren't working. Went nylon for the wider neck, at least until I can hammer my fingers & brain into remembering/relearning chord shapes and fretboard. (Be warned: it ain't like riding a bike, learn once & you know it forever. Playing a guitar is what they call "a perishable skill": use it or lose it).

The action on the Godin is unbelievable. Not even a mid-range Taylor came close. This is playable for me all the way to the top of the fretboard, though I'm still working on barre chords with a four-fret span (used to...). Three's ok though. Nylon in general have a wider neck but most classical guitars (Spanish esp.) have a much higher action than I ever liked, even when I was younger, and the action on my Ovation was too high for these fingers to re-learn. The Godin looked do-able - amazingly low, yet they don't buzz when strummed. This thing offers synth access but I doubt I'll ever use it.

Fast forward 3 months. Ramped slowly, but I'm improving, & I think I made an acceptable choice. Especially given the limited options during the COVID shutdown. I can even travis pick again though the left hand's coming much more slowly (barres are a bitch - still muddy & plagued w dead strings). The Godin sounds good but not great bare (it IS an electric semi-hollow body, after all) - quite different from a traditional acoustic - but run through an amp it sounds great. I may never perform again but if I did this would be every bit as acceptable as the Ovation and anything else I've ever played. Where it really shines for me, though, is playability: I don't remember a Martin D35 being this comfortable to play. But the Godin is heavy as hell - I don't like that. Once my fingers get back & I can deal with narrower string spacing I may swap or add a steel string acoustic (soliciting suggestions if anyone has advice to offer). Or just get happy focusing entirely on fingerpicking nylon.

I like the sound & playability of the strings Godin uses and I'm sure these have plenty more life in them, but I've ordered the Thomastik strings anyhow. I'll report on whether they deliver.
It's been 16 years since you made your suggestion. Anything come to mind now?

[Craig C. Brandau]

Why do you want to do this?

[r***@gmail.com]

Post by John
What sort of effects would make nylon classical guitar sound more like
a steel string? The nylon sound could come either from a piezo pickup
or from a mic.
Thanks,
John

i have a korg pandora px4a which has steel string and 12 strings settings, you can get em second hand, might be worth a look

[m***@gmail.com]

Post by r***@gmail.com

Post by John
What sort of effects would make nylon classical guitar sound more like
a steel string? The nylon sound could come either from a piezo pickup
or from a mic.
Thanks,
John

i have a korg pandora px4a which has steel string and 12 strings settings, you can get em second hand, might be worth a look

14 years on, I suspect John's either found a solution or stopped caring...

[Steve Hawkins]

Post by m***@gmail.com

Post by r***@gmail.com

Post by John
What sort of effects would make nylon classical guitar sound more
like a steel string? The nylon sound could come either from a
piezo pickup or from a mic.
Thanks,
John

i have a korg pandora px4a which has steel string and 12 strings
settings, you can get em second hand, might be worth a look

14 years on, I suspect John's either found a solution or stopped caring...

....or saved up enough for a used Martin or Taylor.

[Steve Freides]

Post by Steve Hawkins

Post by m***@gmail.com

Post by r***@gmail.com

Post by John
What sort of effects would make nylon classical guitar sound more
like a steel string? The nylon sound could come either from a
piezo pickup or from a mic.
Thanks,
John

i have a korg pandora px4a which has steel string and 12 strings
settings, you can get em second hand, might be worth a look

14 years on, I suspect John's either found a solution or stopped caring...

....or saved up enough for a used Martin or Taylor.

Spruce top, high tension strings.

Or a Martin or Taylor.

-S-

[Steven Bornfeld]

Post by Steve Freides

Post by Steve Hawkins

Post by m***@gmail.com

Post by r***@gmail.com

Post by John
What sort of effects would make nylon classical guitar sound more
like a steel string? The nylon sound could come either from a
piezo pickup or from a mic.
Thanks,
John

i have a korg pandora px4a which has steel string and 12 strings
settings, you can get em second hand, might be worth a look

14 years on, I suspect John's either found a solution or stopped caring...

....or saved up enough for a used Martin or Taylor.

Spruce top, high tension strings.
Or a Martin or Taylor.
-S-

...or a Framus.

[Shane Cammell]

I'm curious about this idea as I play a nylon string but am influenced by Tommy Emmanuel. I can't play a steel string as the strings break my right hand nails. Just thought the idea of a bright attack for a few tunes might be handy :)

[James Thompson]

Post by Shane Cammell
I'm curious about this idea as I play a nylon string but am influenced by Tommy Emmanuel. I can't play a steel string as the strings break my right hand nails. Just thought the idea of a bright attack for a few tunes might be handy :)

I've ordered a set of Thomastik-Infield Classic S rope core strings for a Godin Multiac Grand Concert SA guitar. This is a nylon electric. Actually got if for comfort: tried a zillion guitars at price points from $300 to $2,000, at half the guitar shops in a city of 3 million. Hadn't played in 35 years, have osteoarthritis in my fingers and couldn't make chords work on anything steel. Still had the Ovation but it was useless to me: too narrow. Went nylon for the wider neck, at least until I can hammer my fingers & brain into remembering/relearning chord shapes and fretboard. (Be warned, folks: it ain't like riding a bike, learn once & you know it forever. Playing a guitar is what they call "a perishable skill": use it or lose it).
The action on the Godin is unbelievable. Not even a mid-range Taylor came close. This is playable for me all the way to the top of the fretboard, though I'm still working on barre chords with a four-fret span (used to...). Three's ok though. Nylon in general have a wider neck but most classical guitars (Spanish esp.) have a much higher action than I ever liked, even when I was younger, and the action on my Ovation was too high for these fingers to re-learn. The Godin looked do-able - amazingly low in fact. Bizarrely low, yet they don't buzz when strummed. This thing offers synth access but I doubt I'll ever use it.
Fast forward 3 months. Ramped slowly, but I'm improving, & I think I made an acceptable choice. Especially given the limited options during the COVID shutdown. I can even travis pick again though the left hand's coming much more slowly (barres are a bitch - too muddy). The Godin sounds good but not great bare (it IS an electric semi-hollow body, after all) - quite different than a traditional acoustic - but run through an amp it sounds great. I may never perform again but if I did this would be every bit as acceptable as the Ovation and anything else I've ever played. Where it really shines for me, though, is playability: I don't remember a Martin D35 being this comfortable to play. But it is heavy as hell - I don't like that. Once my fingers get back & I can deal with narrower string spacing I may swap or add a steel string acoustic (soliciting suggestions if anyone has advice to offer). Or just get happy focusing entirely on fingerpicking nylon.
I like the sound & playability of the strings Godin uses and I'm sure these have plenty more life in them, but I've ordered the Thomastik strings anyhow. They're flat wound soft steel and promise a much longer sustain than standard nylon, & I've seen suggestions on the web that the tension is acceptable for nylon-strung guitars (if that's not true someone please chip in). I'll report on whether they deliver.
Anyone care to comment? Offer suggestions?