Chord substitution for minor chord?

[Chopper]

I have an autoharp in my band, push a button for a given chord, felts lower
and damp strings not in the chord, strum, chord rings out. The problem is it
only can play chords it is setup for, for example G, D, C, Am, Dm. the one
the player has has no Em. When I play Em, or Em7, if she plays E or E7 the
major third in E or E7 clashes with the minor third I'm playing. Is there
any rule of thumb or easy way to substitute a chord for the Em?
I'm thinking the relative major would work, example G for Em, 'cause I see
G, the relative major as Em7 without the root. If the bass or guitar plays
the root, then should sound like the relative minor.
Doesn't seem like it would work the other way around, substituting relative
minor Em for G, that would give something like G6?
Does this sound right, or am I way off base?
Any help would be appreciated. I've tried to find the answer, without much
luck.

Chopper

[sycochkn]

Post by Chopper
I have an autoharp in my band, push a button for a given chord, felts lower
and damp strings not in the chord, strum, chord rings out. The problem is it
only can play chords it is setup for, for example G, D, C, Am, Dm. the one
the player has has no Em. When I play Em, or Em7, if she plays E or E7 the
major third in E or E7 clashes with the minor third I'm playing. Is there
any rule of thumb or easy way to substitute a chord for the Em?
I'm thinking the relative major would work, example G for Em, 'cause I see
G, the relative major as Em7 without the root. If the bass or guitar plays
the root, then should sound like the relative minor.
Doesn't seem like it would work the other way around, substituting relative
minor Em for G, that would give something like G6?
Does this sound right, or am I way off base?
Any help would be appreciated. I've tried to find the answer, without much
luck.
Chopper

Em and G6 are both valid subs for G major. G6 without the 5 is Em.

Bob

[RAY BOYCE]

Post by sycochkn

Post by Chopper
I have an autoharp in my band, push a button for a given chord, felts lower
and damp strings not in the chord, strum, chord rings out. The problem is it
only can play chords it is setup for, for example G, D, C, Am, Dm. the one
the player has has no Em. When I play Em, or Em7, if she plays E or E7 the
major third in E or E7 clashes with the minor third I'm playing. Is there
any rule of thumb or easy way to substitute a chord for the Em?
I'm thinking the relative major would work, example G for Em, 'cause I see
G, the relative major as Em7 without the root. If the bass or guitar plays
the root, then should sound like the relative minor.
Doesn't seem like it would work the other way around, substituting relative
minor Em for G, that would give something like G6?
Does this sound right, or am I way off base?
Any help would be appreciated. I've tried to find the answer, without much
luck.
Chopper

Em and G6 are both valid subs for G major. G6 without the 5 is Em.
Bob

Correct, both valid subs. He was asking the other way around. (Gmaj
replacing Em)

But a point to note for discussion:
If you were substituting the Em/G6 for G, and there's typical
blues/pentatonic movement behind it (i.e. a bass player hanging on the
flatted 7), you'll have disonance from the half step interval. So I agree
valid substitutions, not necessarily valid "overlay", if the bandmates are
not cognizant, working around it.

[Chopper]

Post by RAY BOYCE

Post by sycochkn

Post by Chopper
I have an autoharp in my band, push a button for a given chord, felts lower
and damp strings not in the chord, strum, chord rings out. The problem

is

Post by RAY BOYCE

Post by sycochkn

Post by Chopper
it
only can play chords it is setup for, for example G, D, C, Am, Dm. the one
the player has has no Em. When I play Em, or Em7, if she plays E or E7 the
major third in E or E7 clashes with the minor third I'm playing. Is there
any rule of thumb or easy way to substitute a chord for the Em?
I'm thinking the relative major would work, example G for Em, 'cause I see
G, the relative major as Em7 without the root. If the bass or guitar plays
the root, then should sound like the relative minor.
Doesn't seem like it would work the other way around, substituting relative
minor Em for G, that would give something like G6?
Does this sound right, or am I way off base?
Any help would be appreciated. I've tried to find the answer, without much
luck.
Chopper

Em and G6 are both valid subs for G major. G6 without the 5 is Em.
Bob

Correct, both valid subs. He was asking the other way around. (Gmaj
replacing Em)
If you were substituting the Em/G6 for G, and there's typical
blues/pentatonic movement behind it (i.e. a bass player hanging on the
flatted 7), you'll have disonance from the half step interval. So I agree
valid substitutions, not necessarily valid "overlay", if the bandmates are
not cognizant, working around it.

I usually play the 6 chord, say G6 in key of G, on beat 2 and 4 if I'm
playing a shuffle rhythm, or on beat 4 if playing a walking bass line,
either from root to flat 7 or to 6. The 6 sounds best to me on those beats,
but it might be 'cuz that's the way I play it. Also, playing G on beats 1
and 2, then G7 on three, G6 on 4 beat, then say D for next measure drives
the song forward, adds a bluesy sound, if that's what you want.

Chopper

[Fletch]

Post by Chopper
I have an autoharp in my band, push a button for a given chord, felts lower
and damp strings not in the chord, strum, chord rings out. The problem is it
only can play chords it is setup for, for example G, D, C, Am, Dm. the one
the player has has no Em. When I play Em, or Em7, if she plays E or E7 the
major third in E or E7 clashes with the minor third I'm playing. Is there
any rule of thumb or easy way to substitute a chord for the Em?
I'm thinking the relative major would work, example G for Em, 'cause I see
G, the relative major as Em7 without the root. If the bass or guitar plays
the root, then should sound like the relative minor.
Doesn't seem like it would work the other way around, substituting relative
minor Em for G, that would give something like G6?
Does this sound right, or am I way off base?
Any help would be appreciated. I've tried to find the answer, without much
luck.
Chopper

You have the right idea.

A G Maj. would be the relative Major to the Em and work fine becase
the notes are the same, the emphasis is just different. If the zither/
autoharp has a G Maj. 6, played together with an Em7 on the guitar/
keyboards, it should be a richer sounding chord musically.

--Fletch

[David Kilpatrick]

Post by Chopper
I have an autoharp in my band, push a button for a given chord, felts lower
and damp strings not in the chord, strum, chord rings out. The problem is it
only can play chords it is setup for, for example G, D, C, Am, Dm. the one
the player has has no Em. When I play Em, or Em7, if she plays E or E7 the
major third in E or E7 clashes with the minor third I'm playing. Is there
any rule of thumb or easy way to substitute a chord for the Em?
I'm thinking the relative major would work, example G for Em, 'cause I see
G, the relative major as Em7 without the root. If the bass or guitar plays
the root, then should sound like the relative minor.
Doesn't seem like it would work the other way around, substituting relative
minor Em for G, that would give something like G6?
Does this sound right, or am I way off base?
Any help would be appreciated. I've tried to find the answer, without much
luck.

Autoharp playing is tricky - you can press more than one button. To get
an Em, press the button for C which damps everything except CEG and
press the button for A7 which damps the C natural but leaves the G open
- you are left with E and G only playing, and this is an acceptable
reduced volume Em.

David

[Misifus]

Post by David Kilpatrick

Post by Chopper
I have an autoharp in my band, push a button for a given chord, felts lower
and damp strings not in the chord, strum, chord rings out. The problem is it
only can play chords it is setup for, for example G, D, C, Am, Dm. the one
the player has has no Em. When I play Em, or Em7, if she plays E or E7 the
major third in E or E7 clashes with the minor third I'm playing. Is there
any rule of thumb or easy way to substitute a chord for the Em?
I'm thinking the relative major would work, example G for Em, 'cause I see
G, the relative major as Em7 without the root. If the bass or guitar plays
the root, then should sound like the relative minor.
Doesn't seem like it would work the other way around, substituting relative
minor Em for G, that would give something like G6?
Does this sound right, or am I way off base?
Any help would be appreciated. I've tried to find the answer, without much
luck.

Autoharp playing is tricky - you can press more than one button. To get
an Em, press the button for C which damps everything except CEG and
press the button for A7 which damps the C natural but leaves the G open
- you are left with E and G only playing, and this is an acceptable
reduced volume Em.
David

Wow, David, that's cool.

-Raf

[Chopper]

Post by Misifus

Post by David Kilpatrick

Post by Chopper
I have an autoharp in my band, push a button for a given chord, felts lower
and damp strings not in the chord, strum, chord rings out. The problem is it
only can play chords it is setup for, for example G, D, C, Am, Dm. the one
the player has has no Em. When I play Em, or Em7, if she plays E or E7 the
major third in E or E7 clashes with the minor third I'm playing. Is there
any rule of thumb or easy way to substitute a chord for the Em?
I'm thinking the relative major would work, example G for Em, 'cause I see
G, the relative major as Em7 without the root. If the bass or guitar plays
the root, then should sound like the relative minor.
Doesn't seem like it would work the other way around, substituting relative
minor Em for G, that would give something like G6?
Does this sound right, or am I way off base?
Any help would be appreciated. I've tried to find the answer, without much
luck.

Autoharp playing is tricky - you can press more than one button. To get
an Em, press the button for C which damps everything except CEG and
press the button for A7 which damps the C natural but leaves the G open
- you are left with E and G only playing, and this is an acceptable
reduced volume Em.
David

Wow, David, that's cool.
-Raf
--
Misifus-
Rafael Seibert
blog: http://rafsrincon.blogspot.com/
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rafiii
home: http://www.rafandsioux.com

Awesome! It never dawned on me to try that, but makes a lot of sense!
Thanks.

Chopper

[madgamer]

Post by Chopper
I have an autoharp in my band, push a button for a given chord, felts lower
and damp strings not in the chord, strum, chord rings out. The problem is it
only can play chords it is setup for, for example G, D, C, Am, Dm. the one
the player has has no Em. When I play Em, or Em7, if she plays E or E7 the
major third in E or E7 clashes with the minor third I'm playing. Is there
any rule of thumb or easy way to substitute a chord for the Em?
I'm thinking the relative major would work, example G for Em, 'cause I see
G, the relative major as Em7 without the root. If the bass or guitar plays
the root, then should sound like the relative minor.
Doesn't seem like it would work the other way around, substituting relative
minor Em for G, that would give something like G6?
Does this sound right, or am I way off base?
Any help would be appreciated. I've tried to find the answer, without much
luck.
Chopper

I used to have a friend in college who played the autoharp and use
finger and thumb picks to play melody. I never could figure out how he
did it. He even played blues on the thing.

Larry

[hank alrich]

Post by madgamer

Post by Chopper
I have an autoharp in my band, push a button for a given chord, felts lower
and damp strings not in the chord, strum, chord rings out. The problem is it
only can play chords it is setup for, for example G, D, C, Am, Dm. the one
the player has has no Em. When I play Em, or Em7, if she plays E or E7 the
major third in E or E7 clashes with the minor third I'm playing. Is there
any rule of thumb or easy way to substitute a chord for the Em?
I'm thinking the relative major would work, example G for Em, 'cause I see
G, the relative major as Em7 without the root. If the bass or guitar plays
the root, then should sound like the relative minor.
Doesn't seem like it would work the other way around, substituting relative
minor Em for G, that would give something like G6?
Does this sound right, or am I way off base?
Any help would be appreciated. I've tried to find the answer, without much
luck.
Chopper

I used to have a friend in college who played the autoharp and use
finger and thumb picks to play melody. I never could figure out how he
did it. He even played blues on the thing.

Check out Bryan Bowers stuff:

www.bryanbowers.com/

And if you're really curious about tremendous autoharp playing, searchf
or some Kilby Snow recordings.

[Ken Cashion]

Post by Chopper
I have an autoharp in my band, push a button for a given chord, felts lower
and damp strings not in the chord, strum, chord rings out. The problem is it
only can play chords it is setup for, for example G, D, C, Am, Dm. the one
the player has has no Em. When I play Em, or Em7, if she plays E or E7 the
major third in E or E7 clashes with the minor third I'm playing. Is there
any rule of thumb or easy way to substitute a chord for the Em?
I'm thinking the relative major would work, example G for Em, 'cause I see
G, the relative major as Em7 without the root. If the bass or guitar plays
the root, then should sound like the relative minor.
Doesn't seem like it would work the other way around, substituting relative
minor Em for G, that would give something like G6?
Does this sound right, or am I way off base?
Any help would be appreciated. I've tried to find the answer, without much
luck.
Chopper

I think my autoharp had a chord I did not use that much so I figured
out what I wanted, removed the bar, cut new notches in the felt, and
then glued them in the slots I wanted closed.

I gained the chord I wanted this way. This idea might be a
possibility.

Ken

[hank alrich]

Post by Ken Cashion
I think my autoharp had a chord I did not use that much so I figured
out what I wanted, removed the bar, cut new notches in the felt, and
then glued them in the slots I wanted closed.
I gained the chord I wanted this way. This idea might be a
possibility.

Some autoharps haver more bars than other autoharps. Em is not that
uncommon on autoharps.

[Ken Cashion]

Post by hank alrich

Post by Ken Cashion
I think my autoharp had a chord I did not use that much so I figured
out what I wanted, removed the bar, cut new notches in the felt, and
then glued them in the slots I wanted closed.
I gained the chord I wanted this way. This idea might be a
possibility.

Some autoharps haver more bars than other autoharps. Em is not that
uncommon on autoharps.

You made me go look. I have a 15-bar autoharp and I converted the
"Gm" to an "Em." I had forgotten what I converted it to and it took
me a while to figure it out. <g>

(I got it in 1964...Oscar Schmidt Autoharp with Silvertone
silk-screened on it.)

But I needed to get it out soon because I wanted to record a song or
two on it...and while I was in that end of the cabinet, I got the
home-made mandolin out to do the same.

Ken

[hank alrich]

Post by Ken Cashion

Post by hank alrich

Post by Ken Cashion
I think my autoharp had a chord I did not use that much so I figured
out what I wanted, removed the bar, cut new notches in the felt, and
then glued them in the slots I wanted closed.
I gained the chord I wanted this way. This idea might be a
possibility.

Some autoharps haver more bars than other autoharps. Em is not that
uncommon on autoharps.

You made me go look. I have a 15-bar autoharp and I converted the
"Gm" to an "Em." I had forgotten what I converted it to and it took
me a while to figure it out. <g>
(I got it in 1964...Oscar Schmidt Autoharp with Silvertone
silk-screened on it.)

Oscar also offers 21-bar 'harps. Pretty sure those come with an Em bar.

[Ken Cashion]

Post by hank alrich

Post by Ken Cashion

Post by hank alrich

Post by Ken Cashion
I think my autoharp had a chord I did not use that much so I figured
out what I wanted, removed the bar, cut new notches in the felt, and
then glued them in the slots I wanted closed.
I gained the chord I wanted this way. This idea might be a
possibility.

Some autoharps haver more bars than other autoharps. Em is not that
uncommon on autoharps.

You made me go look. I have a 15-bar autoharp and I converted the
"Gm" to an "Em." I had forgotten what I converted it to and it took
me a while to figure it out. <g>
(I got it in 1964...Oscar Schmidt Autoharp with Silvertone
silk-screened on it.)

Oscar also offers 21-bar 'harps. Pretty sure those come with an Em bar.

Twenty-one? My heavens, where is there room left to strum? The bars
need to be somewhat close to the centers to reduce the bar pressure
and even with 15, there is hardly enough room to reach the shortest
string and even then, I am picking it with in 3/4" of the bridge.

I decided a few times that I would have been better off with the
12-bar model.

I have inherited a newer model harp from a friend and I was thinking
that the felts were newer and softer than mine and I might tune it and
remove a some of the bars to give me more room on the highest string.

I built a resonator on the back of mine. Those dudes are too quiet as
it is and getting the back off my front made it louder, and the
resonator is sort of a horn and what comes off the back makes its way
to the front.

I have found that the harps with the tuning posts being vertical do
not hold tune as well as those that are tilted back some. Both of
mine tilt and hold tune real well. But those with vertical posts are
easier to manufacture.

Ken

[Misifus]

Post by Ken Cashion

Post by hank alrich

Post by Ken Cashion

Post by hank alrich

Post by Ken Cashion
I think my autoharp had a chord I did not use that much so I figured
out what I wanted, removed the bar, cut new notches in the felt, and
then glued them in the slots I wanted closed.
I gained the chord I wanted this way. This idea might be a
possibility.

Some autoharps haver more bars than other autoharps. Em is not that
uncommon on autoharps.

You made me go look. I have a 15-bar autoharp and I converted the
"Gm" to an "Em." I had forgotten what I converted it to and it took
me a while to figure it out. <g>
(I got it in 1964...Oscar Schmidt Autoharp with Silvertone
silk-screened on it.)

Oscar also offers 21-bar 'harps. Pretty sure those come with an Em bar.

Twenty-one? My heavens, where is there room left to strum? The bars
need to be somewhat close to the centers to reduce the bar pressure
and even with 15, there is hardly enough room to reach the shortest
string and even then, I am picking it with in 3/4" of the bridge.
I decided a few times that I would have been better off with the
12-bar model.
I have inherited a newer model harp from a friend and I was thinking
that the felts were newer and softer than mine and I might tune it and
remove a some of the bars to give me more room on the highest string.
I built a resonator on the back of mine. Those dudes are too quiet as
it is and getting the back off my front made it louder, and the
resonator is sort of a horn and what comes off the back makes its way
to the front.
I have found that the harps with the tuning posts being vertical do
not hold tune as well as those that are tilted back some. Both of
mine tilt and hold tune real well. But those with vertical posts are
easier to manufacture.
Ken

<http://www.blueridgeautoharps.com/>

-Raf

[hank alrich]

Post by Misifus
<http://www.blueridgeautoharps.com/>

http://www.ortheyautoharps.com/

George Orthey makes the 'harps Bryan Bowers plays. I have one of his
dulcimers from the '60's. When I was RA at Ft. Sam Houston, he was a
major, veterinarian, and fraternized with enlisted men who played folk
music. We had some terrific jams at his house. He'd built his wife a
very nice banjo, lots of dulcimers, a harpsichord and more.

[Chopper]

Post by Ken Cashion

Post by hank alrich

Post by Ken Cashion
I think my autoharp had a chord I did not use that much so I figured
out what I wanted, removed the bar, cut new notches in the felt, and
then glued them in the slots I wanted closed.
I gained the chord I wanted this way. This idea might be a
possibility.

Some autoharps haver more bars than other autoharps. Em is not that
uncommon on autoharps.

You made me go look. I have a 15-bar autoharp and I converted the
"Gm" to an "Em." I had forgotten what I converted it to and it took
me a while to figure it out. <g>
(I got it in 1964...Oscar Schmidt Autoharp with Silvertone
silk-screened on it.)
But I needed to get it out soon because I wanted to record a song or
two on it...and while I was in that end of the cabinet, I got the
home-made mandolin out to do the same.
Ken

The autoharp adds a lot to our sound, but doesn't have a lot of volume.
Those strings really ring. My sister can strum a chord and the strings ring
out for a l-o-n-g time. Doesn't hold tuning well, tuning pegs are vertical,
and all those strings take a while to tweak.

Do you tune up to pitch on the harp, or go a bit sharp then tune back down
to pitch? I always tune my guitar up to pitch, to keep the tension on the
gears. The autoharp doesn't have gears, just the pegs, like a piano, and I
tune my piano a little sharp then back down to pitch. That's the way I was
taught to do it on the piano, I think it was to set the pins in the wood
properly.

Chopper

[Ken Cashion]

Post by Chopper

Post by Ken Cashion

Post by hank alrich

Post by Ken Cashion
I think my autoharp had a chord I did not use that much so I figured
out what I wanted, removed the bar, cut new notches in the felt, and
then glued them in the slots I wanted closed.
I gained the chord I wanted this way. This idea might be a
possibility.

Some autoharps haver more bars than other autoharps. Em is not that
uncommon on autoharps.

You made me go look. I have a 15-bar autoharp and I converted the
"Gm" to an "Em." I had forgotten what I converted it to and it took
me a while to figure it out. <g>
(I got it in 1964...Oscar Schmidt Autoharp with Silvertone
silk-screened on it.)
But I needed to get it out soon because I wanted to record a song or
two on it...and while I was in that end of the cabinet, I got the
home-made mandolin out to do the same.
Ken

The autoharp adds a lot to our sound, but doesn't have a lot of volume.
Those strings really ring. My sister can strum a chord and the strings ring
out for a l-o-n-g time. Doesn't hold tuning well, tuning pegs are vertical,
and all those strings take a while to tweak.

My experience, as well.

Post by Chopper
Do you tune up to pitch on the harp, or go a bit sharp then tune back down
to pitch?

When I hit the right note, I am so glad to get another string done, I
don't care which way I was going. <g>

Post by Chopper
I always tune my guitar up to pitch, to keep the tension on the
gears. The autoharp doesn't have gears, just the pegs, like a piano, and I
tune my piano a little sharp then back down to pitch. That's the way I was
taught to do it on the piano, I think it was to set the pins in the wood
properly.

You are right and I try to do the same. The string is trying to
unwind the peg, so letting it unwind (with our help) and then stopping
it at the right note is what I believe is correct.

(I hate it when I start writing stuff like this. I do so want to be
correct.)

OK, I just got my piano tuning book and what I just said is correct,
though it took Mr. . Cree Fischer more than a page to say the same
thing.

This is in his book "Piano Tuning -- A Simple and Accurate Method for
Amateurs." It seems verbose because it was published in 1907, so is
written in the wonderfully Victorian style, which is my favorite.

The book, Fischer thought, was necessary because he confesses that
there was a great shortage of piano tuners. He states that in 1906
almost all well-to-do homes had a piano. This meant many homes who
wanted to think they were well-to-do had them, as well.

He said that in 1906, 300,000 pianos would be sold. (He said.)

And I will point out there were no air-conditioners then and the
windows were open in the humid areas of summers and in the winter,
there might be a roaring fire in the room where the piano was.

Oops...babble filter turned on.

Ken

[Chopper]

Post by Ken Cashion

Post by Chopper
I have an autoharp in my band, push a button for a given chord, felts lower
and damp strings not in the chord, strum, chord rings out. The problem is it
only can play chords it is setup for, for example G, D, C, Am, Dm. the one
the player has has no Em. When I play Em, or Em7, if she plays E or E7 the
major third in E or E7 clashes with the minor third I'm playing. Is there
any rule of thumb or easy way to substitute a chord for the Em?
I'm thinking the relative major would work, example G for Em, 'cause I see
G, the relative major as Em7 without the root. If the bass or guitar plays
the root, then should sound like the relative minor.
Doesn't seem like it would work the other way around, substituting relative
minor Em for G, that would give something like G6?
Does this sound right, or am I way off base?
Any help would be appreciated. I've tried to find the answer, without much
luck.
Chopper

I think my autoharp had a chord I did not use that much so I figured
out what I wanted, removed the bar, cut new notches in the felt, and
then glued them in the slots I wanted closed.
I gained the chord I wanted this way. This idea might be a
possibility.
Ken

I thought of doing that, but my sister choked at the thought of modding her
vintage 'harp. I told her you said it was okay to do, she wasn't impressed!
Guess I'll let it sink in, then try to convince her again.


Chopper

[Ken Cashion]

Post by Chopper

Post by Ken Cashion

Post by Chopper
I have an autoharp in my band, push a button for a given chord, felts

lower

Post by Ken Cashion

Post by Chopper
and damp strings not in the chord, strum, chord rings out. The problem is

it

Post by Ken Cashion

Post by Chopper
only can play chords it is setup for, for example G, D, C, Am, Dm. the

one

Post by Ken Cashion

Post by Chopper
the player has has no Em. When I play Em, or Em7, if she plays E or E7

the

Post by Ken Cashion

Post by Chopper
major third in E or E7 clashes with the minor third I'm playing. Is there
any rule of thumb or easy way to substitute a chord for the Em?
I'm thinking the relative major would work, example G for Em, 'cause I

see

Post by Ken Cashion

Post by Chopper
G, the relative major as Em7 without the root. If the bass or guitar

plays

Post by Ken Cashion

Post by Chopper
the root, then should sound like the relative minor.
Doesn't seem like it would work the other way around, substituting

relative

Post by Ken Cashion

Post by Chopper
minor Em for G, that would give something like G6?
Does this sound right, or am I way off base?
Any help would be appreciated. I've tried to find the answer, without

much

Post by Ken Cashion

Post by Chopper
luck.
Chopper

I think my autoharp had a chord I did not use that much so I figured
out what I wanted, removed the bar, cut new notches in the felt, and
then glued them in the slots I wanted closed.
I gained the chord I wanted this way. This idea might be a
possibility.
Ken

I thought of doing that, but my sister choked at the thought of modding her
vintage 'harp. I told her you said it was okay to do, she wasn't impressed!
Guess I'll let it sink in, then try to convince her again.

Tell her that Kenny Wacky Woo says it would be OK, as well.

I agree with her with a vintage harp, but I guess everything is
vintage to some date. My idea is to always be a good engineer...don't
modify anything you cannot back up from.

I have some wonderful antiques and I have modified them, yet, I can
return them to the same condition they were in a matter of minutes.

Ken