Bert Jansch "Blackwaterside"

[Jon Riley]

I'm currently transcribing this classic fingerstyle tune.
Can anybody confirm for me what tuning he used on this? The CD booklet (Jack
Orion) is ambiguous, referring to it as dropped D at one point (DADGBE) and
DADGAD at another. It sounds to me more like the latter (capo 4th fret,
btw), but there are some passages that sound more like open D (DADF#AD),
being quite tricky in DADGAD or DADGBE - IOW, if it was played in DADGAD, he
seem to have chosen odd positions to play some of the lines. Not that he
wasn't capable of doing it, but if I were him I would have chosen something
simpler that sounded equally good.

Secondly - am I wasting my time? :-) Does anyone know of reliable Jansch
transcriptions on the internet (specifically this tune)? I found a pretty
good site a while back, but it seems to have disappeared.
Failing that - any good books? I'm quite surprised not to be able to find
Jansch publications in (even very good) music shops.

JonR

[Michael Dunnigan]

Think it's dropped D

I can get the first few licks with this tuning.

Check out the Jimmy Page take on this tune (uncredited) called Black
Mountainside

MD

Cheers

Michael D

WeeGreenGuitar

[Jon Riley]

Post by Michael Dunnigan
Think it's dropped D
I can get the first few licks with this tuning.

cheers Michael

I've managed to notate the whole thing, and most of it is straightforward,
lies under the fingers pretty well (everything on the bottom 4 strings
anyway).

The bit I have problems with (that seems a little awkward in any of the
possible tunings) is the 2nd bar. In DADGBE (frets counted from nut or
capo), it's (apparently) as follows (hopefully this will come out in
courier):

e|-----2----3h5p3-2*----|
B|---3---------------5--|
G|----------0-----2-----|
D|----------------------|
A|----------------------|
E|0------0--------------|

Or maybe it's this

e|-------------------0--|
B|-----7----8h10p8-7*---|
G|---7------0-----------|
D|-----------------7----|
A|----------------------|
E|0------0--------------|

or...

e|----------------------|
B|-----7----8h10p8-7*---|
G|---7------0--------9--|
D|-----------------7----|
A|----------------------|
E|0------0--------------|

The F# (marked *) holds over the following E, so they can't be on the same
string. Yet there seems to be no good reason, musically, for the notes to
sound in this way, and it would have been easier to play them on the same
string - and the above bar (outside of these notes) is even easier in DADGAD
or open D.
Another possible tuning I'm considering is DADGBD.

I'm probably being a bit anal about this...:-)...but how would you play this
passage?

Post by Michael Dunnigan
Check out the Jimmy Page take on this tune (uncredited) called Black
Mountainside

I'm aware of the connection, but I haven't heard the Zep track. How
different is it from Jansch's?

JonR

[Danno]

I believe that Page's version (on Led Zeppelin 1) is in DADGAD.
I have some tablature from a very old GP magazine.
Regards,
Dan

Post by Michael Dunnigan
Think it's dropped D
I can get the first few licks with this tuning.
Check out the Jimmy Page take on this tune (uncredited) called Black
Mountainside
MD
Cheers
Michael D
WeeGreenGuitar

[David Kilpatrick]

Post by Jon Riley
I'm currently transcribing this classic fingerstyle tune.
Can anybody confirm for me what tuning he used on this? The CD booklet (Jack
Orion) is ambiguous, referring to it as dropped D at one point (DADGBE) and
DADGAD at another. It sounds to me more like the latter (capo 4th fret,
btw), but there are some passages that sound more like open D (DADF#AD),
being quite tricky in DADGAD or DADGBE - IOW, if it was played in DADGAD, he
seem to have chosen odd positions to play some of the lines. Not that he
wasn't capable of doing it, but if I were him I would have chosen something
simpler that sounded equally good.
Secondly - am I wasting my time? :-) Does anyone know of reliable Jansch
transcriptions on the internet (specifically this tune)? I found a pretty
good site a while back, but it seems to have disappeared.
Failing that - any good books? I'm quite surprised not to be able to find
Jansch publications in (even very good) music shops.

Blackwater Side is in the Mel Bay book of British fingerstyle which
feastured Bert's stuff. Been in print for decades. It is in drop D
tuning and quite easily adapted or altered, if you listen to several
different Jansch/Pentangle versions you will find it changes radically.

Have a listen to http://www.mp3.com/davidkilpatrick/ and find my version
- drop D, broadly based on Bert's structure but not identical at all. I
know plenty of other people who do much the same with the song
(basically, no going running up to the seventh fret while trying to sing
at the same time!).

David

[Jon Riley]

Post by David Kilpatrick
Blackwater Side is in the Mel Bay book of British fingerstyle which
feastured Bert's stuff. Been in print for decades.

Thanks - obviously I haven't been looking hard enough...:-)

Post by David Kilpatrick
It is in drop D
tuning and quite easily adapted or altered, if you listen to several
different Jansch/Pentangle versions you will find it changes radically.
Have a listen to http://www.mp3.com/davidkilpatrick/ and find my version
- drop D, broadly based on Bert's structure but not identical at all. I
know plenty of other people who do much the same with the song
(basically, no going running up to the seventh fret while trying to sing
at the same time!).

Yes I realise it needn't be set in stone, I was intrigued by how Jansch
might have been fingering the Jack Orion version.
Thanks again.

JonR

[Bob Thomas]

Jon

In my version of Jansch's version of Anne Briggs' version of
Blackwaterside I play your troublesome f# on the second string 7th
fret and that leaves the e open to ring (a released whole tone
pre-bend at the 5th fret works there too).... I play a G on the 6th
string under the 3h5p3 bit, the f# and the e ....

I recorded the Jansch BBC4 Session concert last week and he plays
Blackwaterside on that - very different to the Jack Orion version -
however there's enough good camera shots to show you where he's
playing what nowadays .... and it looks a lot different from my
version .....

Bob

Post by Jon Riley

Post by David Kilpatrick
Blackwater Side is in the Mel Bay book of British fingerstyle which
feastured Bert's stuff. Been in print for decades.

Thanks - obviously I haven't been looking hard enough...:-)

Post by David Kilpatrick
It is in drop D
tuning and quite easily adapted or altered, if you listen to several
different Jansch/Pentangle versions you will find it changes radically.
Have a listen to http://www.mp3.com/davidkilpatrick/ and find my version
- drop D, broadly based on Bert's structure but not identical at all. I
know plenty of other people who do much the same with the song
(basically, no going running up to the seventh fret while trying to sing
at the same time!).

Yes I realise it needn't be set in stone, I was intrigued by how Jansch
might have been fingering the Jack Orion version.
Thanks again.
JonR