Discussion:
C6 vs Cmaj6
(too old to reply)
g***@hotmail.com
2015-05-13 05:31:39 UTC
Permalink
Isn't C6 referring to C dominant 6th,a substitute or variation of the dominant 7th chord ,whereas Cmajor 6th is a variation of the Major7h chord, 4th chord and 5th chord
David L. Martel
2015-05-13 12:26:27 UTC
Permalink
Guitar,

A C6 chord is a C major chord with a 6th added. So, C E G A . It's not a
C7, C4 etc. Not sure what you mean by "dominant 6th and dominant 7th".. Are
you playing inversions? The 5th is the dominant in the scale.

Dave M.
Nil
2015-05-13 16:38:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Isn't C6 referring to C dominant 6th,a substitute or variation of
the dominant 7th chord ,whereas Cmajor 6th is a variation of the
Major7h chord, 4th chord and 5th chord
Your nominclature is confusing.

C is a major triad (c e g)

C6 is a C major triad with an added major 6 interval (a).

Cmaj7 is C major triad with an added maj. 7 interval (b).

C7 is a C major triad with an added minor 7 interval (b flat).

C13 is a C7 chord with an added major 13 interval (a). Notice that this
is the same note as the maj. 6, but up an octave. Of course, the note
can be placed in any octave depending on the desired voicing. C13 also
implies that the 9 (d) and possibly the 11 (f) or #11 (f#) can be
included, too.
Les Cargill
2015-05-13 23:55:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Isn't C6 referring to C dominant 6th,a substitute or variation of the
dominant 7th chord ,whereas Cmajor 6th is a variation of the Major7h
chord, 4th chord and 5th chord
There is C6, Cadd6 and Cmajor6.

C6 is identical to A minor ignoring inversions. C E A

Cadd6 has both the V note and the VI note - C E G A

Cmajor6 live in context with a C9 chord but is
otherwise the same as an Cadd6
--
Les Cargill
Steve Freides
2015-05-15 02:43:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Les Cargill
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Isn't C6 referring to C dominant 6th,a substitute or variation of the
dominant 7th chord ,whereas Cmajor 6th is a variation of the Major7h
chord, 4th chord and 5th chord
There is C6, Cadd6 and Cmajor6.
C6 is identical to A minor ignoring inversions. C E A
Cadd6 has both the V note and the VI note - C E G A
Both the above are C-E-G-A. Your C6 is Am/C in guitar lingo or 1st
inversion Am. No one bothers to say C add 6 because C6 says the same
thing.

"Add" tells you to skip notes, e.g., C9 is C-E-G-Bb-D but C add 9 is
just the triad plus the 9th, C-E-G-D. Thus C add 9 is "take a C triad
and add a 9th."
Post by Les Cargill
Cmajor6 live in context with a C9 chord but is
otherwise the same as an Cadd6
Never seen Cmaj6.
hank alrich
2015-05-15 03:26:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Freides
Post by Les Cargill
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Isn't C6 referring to C dominant 6th,a substitute or variation of the
dominant 7th chord ,whereas Cmajor 6th is a variation of the Major7h
chord, 4th chord and 5th chord
There is C6, Cadd6 and Cmajor6.
C6 is identical to A minor ignoring inversions. C E A
Cadd6 has both the V note and the VI note - C E G A
Both the above are C-E-G-A. Your C6 is Am/C in guitar lingo or 1st
inversion Am. No one bothers to say C add 6 because C6 says the same
thing.
"Add" tells you to skip notes, e.g., C9 is C-E-G-Bb-D but C add 9 is
just the triad plus the 9th, C-E-G-D. Thus C add 9 is "take a C triad
and add a 9th."
Post by Les Cargill
Cmajor6 live in context with a C9 chord but is
otherwise the same as an Cadd6
Never seen Cmaj6.
I think Les came by that one via steel guitar, where it's one of the
basic open tunings. Could be wrong.
--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic
Steve Freides
2015-05-15 12:54:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by hank alrich
Post by Steve Freides
Post by Les Cargill
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Isn't C6 referring to C dominant 6th,a substitute or variation of
the dominant 7th chord ,whereas Cmajor 6th is a variation of the
Major7h chord, 4th chord and 5th chord
There is C6, Cadd6 and Cmajor6.
C6 is identical to A minor ignoring inversions. C E A
Cadd6 has both the V note and the VI note - C E G A
Both the above are C-E-G-A. Your C6 is Am/C in guitar lingo or 1st
inversion Am. No one bothers to say C add 6 because C6 says the same
thing.
"Add" tells you to skip notes, e.g., C9 is C-E-G-Bb-D but C add 9 is
just the triad plus the 9th, C-E-G-D. Thus C add 9 is "take a C
triad and add a 9th."
Post by Les Cargill
Cmajor6 live in context with a C9 chord but is
otherwise the same as an Cadd6
Never seen Cmaj6.
I think Les came by that one via steel guitar, where it's one of the
basic open tunings. Could be wrong.
Are we talking pedal steel guitar? I know nothing of that whole family
of instruments, save that the guy who play with Allison Kraus is just
plain awesome at it. Would love a primer.

-S-
hank alrich
2015-05-15 14:21:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Freides
Post by hank alrich
Post by Steve Freides
Post by Les Cargill
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Isn't C6 referring to C dominant 6th,a substitute or variation of
the dominant 7th chord ,whereas Cmajor 6th is a variation of the
Major7h chord, 4th chord and 5th chord
There is C6, Cadd6 and Cmajor6.
C6 is identical to A minor ignoring inversions. C E A
Cadd6 has both the V note and the VI note - C E G A
Both the above are C-E-G-A. Your C6 is Am/C in guitar lingo or 1st
inversion Am. No one bothers to say C add 6 because C6 says the same
thing.
"Add" tells you to skip notes, e.g., C9 is C-E-G-Bb-D but C add 9 is
just the triad plus the 9th, C-E-G-D. Thus C add 9 is "take a C
triad and add a 9th."
Post by Les Cargill
Cmajor6 live in context with a C9 chord but is
otherwise the same as an Cadd6
Never seen Cmaj6.
I think Les came by that one via steel guitar, where it's one of the
basic open tunings. Could be wrong.
Are we talking pedal steel guitar? I know nothing of that whole family
of instruments, save that the guy who play with Allison Kraus is just
plain awesome at it.
Jerry Douglas - rare combination of incredible technique coupled with
exemplary taste.

He plays mostly resonator guitar, and probably can preach on steel
guitar, too, but neither of those are "pedal steel".

Resonater guitars, "dobros, "lap steel" guitars are essentially guitars
tuned open and played with a steel.
Post by Steve Freides
Would love a primer.
Long ago I could play resonator ("dobro") decently, but I haven't done
that in years. My attention span is too short to really deal with pedal
steel. One needs to become a mechanic skilled in adjusting fussy stuff
in order to keep one's instrtument properly functional. The history of
those is fascinating and includes a lot of pioneers who developed their
own tunings and mechanisms. Some of the instruments have become
fascinatingly complex, with multiple necks in different tunings, lots of
pedals, knee levers, and probably more of which I know nothing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dobro

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_String_Instrument_Corporation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weissenborn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedal_steel_guitar
--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic
Les Cargill
2015-05-15 23:59:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by hank alrich
Post by Steve Freides
Post by hank alrich
Post by Steve Freides
Post by Les Cargill
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Isn't C6 referring to C dominant 6th,a substitute or variation of
the dominant 7th chord ,whereas Cmajor 6th is a variation of the
Major7h chord, 4th chord and 5th chord
There is C6, Cadd6 and Cmajor6.
C6 is identical to A minor ignoring inversions. C E A
Cadd6 has both the V note and the VI note - C E G A
Both the above are C-E-G-A. Your C6 is Am/C in guitar lingo or 1st
inversion Am. No one bothers to say C add 6 because C6 says the same
thing.
"Add" tells you to skip notes, e.g., C9 is C-E-G-Bb-D but C add 9 is
just the triad plus the 9th, C-E-G-D. Thus C add 9 is "take a C
triad and add a 9th."
Post by Les Cargill
Cmajor6 live in context with a C9 chord but is
otherwise the same as an Cadd6
Never seen Cmaj6.
I think Les came by that one via steel guitar, where it's one of the
basic open tunings. Could be wrong.
Are we talking pedal steel guitar? I know nothing of that whole family
of instruments, save that the guy who play with Allison Kraus is just
plain awesome at it.
Jerry Douglas - rare combination of incredible technique coupled with
exemplary taste.
He plays mostly resonator guitar, and probably can preach on steel
guitar, too, but neither of those are "pedal steel".
Resonater guitars, "dobros, "lap steel" guitars are essentially guitars
tuned open and played with a steel.
+1

Different disciplines entirely. IMO, the really great steel
players tended not to play pedal, partly because it's new
so the test of time favors those who were before.
Post by hank alrich
Post by Steve Freides
Would love a primer.
Long ago I could play resonator ("dobro") decently, but I haven't done
that in years. My attention span is too short to really deal with pedal
steel. One needs to become a mechanic skilled in adjusting fussy stuff
in order to keep one's instrtument properly functional.
Yep. It's a real "motorcycle maintenance" instrument.
Post by hank alrich
The history of
those is fascinating and includes a lot of pioneers who developed their
own tunings and mechanisms. Some of the instruments have become
fascinatingly complex, with multiple necks in different tunings, lots of
pedals, knee levers, and probably more of which I know nothing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dobro
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_String_Instrument_Corporation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weissenborn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedal_steel_guitar
--
Les Cargill
Bill
2015-05-16 01:48:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by hank alrich
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedal_steel_guitar
Thanks for posting this. It answered more questions about pedal steel
guitar than I even knew I had!

Bill
Les Cargill
2015-05-15 23:55:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Freides
Post by hank alrich
Post by Steve Freides
Post by Les Cargill
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Isn't C6 referring to C dominant 6th,a substitute or variation of
the dominant 7th chord ,whereas Cmajor 6th is a variation of the
Major7h chord, 4th chord and 5th chord
There is C6, Cadd6 and Cmajor6.
C6 is identical to A minor ignoring inversions. C E A
Cadd6 has both the V note and the VI note - C E G A
Both the above are C-E-G-A. Your C6 is Am/C in guitar lingo or 1st
inversion Am. No one bothers to say C add 6 because C6 says the same
thing.
"Add" tells you to skip notes, e.g., C9 is C-E-G-Bb-D but C add 9 is
just the triad plus the 9th, C-E-G-D. Thus C add 9 is "take a C
triad and add a 9th."
Post by Les Cargill
Cmajor6 live in context with a C9 chord but is
otherwise the same as an Cadd6
Never seen Cmaj6.
I think Les came by that one via steel guitar, where it's one of the
basic open tunings. Could be wrong.
Are we talking pedal steel guitar? I know nothing of that whole family
of instruments, save that the guy who play with Allison Kraus is just
plain awesome at it. Would love a primer.
-S-
There are instructional videos all over the internet.

Joe Wright:

http://www.sierrasteels.com/lessons/e9th-lessons.html

Mickey Adams.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Singlpilot
10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
E9 tunes B-D-E-F♯-G♯-B-E-G♯-D♯-F♯ open ( big to small ).

the (5)B & (4)E are the same as strings 1 & 2 on a six string.

The D# and F# on strings 2 and 1 are *lower in pitch* than the E and
G# on 4 & 3, respectively. This is by historical accident. The (3)G#
is highest in pitch, then (1)F#, then (4)E, then (2)D#.

The reason is that Buddy Emmons put them on that way when
going from 8 to 10 strings and other people copied him before he could
put them in order. Literally pure path dependence.

After a while, it actually makes sense for them to be that way - your
main triad is all together that way. You hit fewer F# and D# strings;
they are mainly there for passing tones, or -add notes (2, 9 or maj7)

For E9 ( Nashville ) steel, the main pedals/levers are:

A - Raises the B strings to C# for a vi chord.

B - Raises the G# to A. A+B gives you a IV chord, B is a sus4, A alone
is a vi chord. Rocking on and off the A pedal with B down is *THE*
steel sound - IVsus2-IV ( relative to no pedals - A and B down
could be the tonic depending. )

C - Raises (5)B and (4)E to C# and F# to give you a ii chord.

E lower lever - Lowers all E's to D# for a iii (G# at the open string )
chord. Provide for the vii chord in a chord scale. It may be
half-diminished; I forget.

The E lower with the B pedal give you a Vdom7.

F lever - Raise the E's to F. Makes for a dim or dom7 dependent on
context. Also turns the A-alone pedal into a major VI.

Which lever or pedal is which varies form guitar to guitar. There
are a couple of standards.

There are other levers and pedals. The main one is the X lever, which
turns an AB pedal A major into a minor by lowering the B strings to A#.
Most have a lever to drop (2)D# to D or D and C# ( with what is
called a half-stop ) Pedal steels are "programmable" and you can make
any "copedent" you like. There are lots of them.

Tune string (9)D to A# and it's a completely different guitar.

The ideas is to be able to play a chord scale without moving the bar.
And sure enough, you can. You can't hit the same strings for all
chords, though. On real material, it is not a sin (quite the opposite
) to move the bar, it's just riskier. I hear big name players who plant
the bar wrong now and again.

C6 is even more complex but somehow also simpler. It's

C-F-A-C-E-G-A-C-E-G or C-F-A-C-E-G-A-C-E-D

There are five standard pedals
4 - Raise the (4)A and (8)A to B. Moves a 6th onto a major 7.
5 - Raise (1)G to G#, lower (5)G to F#, raise (9)F to F# and (10)C to D
. I don't actually know what that makes, but you can slide up three
frets and get a very minor-sounding IV chord.
6 - IV chord in place *or a minor* - lower (6)E to D# and raise (2)E to
an F.
7 - Raise (3) and (4) a whole tone each. It's the 13th tuning pedal, I
believe.
8 - Dunno, don't have one. (7)C to C#, (9)F to E, (10)C to A ( same a
as on an open bass guitar ). Lol, whut?

C6 pedals *replaced necks* on multiple-neck guitars. Mostly. You can
have any tuning and copedent you desire.

Obviously, picking strings carefully you can get a shipload of things
without even moving a pedal. Chord scale without a lever/pedal involves
at most two frets either side from the home fret.

There may be levers, but they are not particularly standard.

I use a U12, which is both an E9 and B6 in one, with some
pieces missing but real advantages for some things.

http://www.larrybell.org/id24.htm

I think Ralph Mooney just about used only three pedals.

Eddie Rivers don't need no pedals at all.
--
Les Cargill
Les Cargill
2015-05-15 13:47:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by hank alrich
Post by Steve Freides
Post by Les Cargill
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Isn't C6 referring to C dominant 6th,a substitute or variation of the
dominant 7th chord ,whereas Cmajor 6th is a variation of the Major7h
chord, 4th chord and 5th chord
There is C6, Cadd6 and Cmajor6.
C6 is identical to A minor ignoring inversions. C E A
Cadd6 has both the V note and the VI note - C E G A
Both the above are C-E-G-A. Your C6 is Am/C in guitar lingo or 1st
inversion Am.
You would think so, yes. I've run into cases where the G
was optional but the A wasn't.
Post by hank alrich
Post by Steve Freides
No one bothers to say C add 6 because C6 says the same
thing.
"Add" tells you to skip notes, e.g., C9 is C-E-G-Bb-D but C add 9 is
just the triad plus the 9th, C-E-G-D. Thus C add 9 is "take a C triad
and add a 9th."
Post by Les Cargill
Cmajor6 live in context with a C9 chord but is
otherwise the same as an Cadd6
Never seen Cmaj6.
I think Les came by that one via steel guitar, where it's one of the
basic open tunings. Could be wrong.
The C6 in the tuning has a G, so that's not it. Steel tunings
are a superset of the chord they are named for anyway.

I honestly don't remember where I got the idea from. Yeah, Cadd6 and C6
are often the same thing. "You mean Cadd6?" will disambiguate.

Most people do not mean an inversion on Am; they mean CEGA.
--
Les Cargill
Steve Freides
2015-05-15 22:55:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Les Cargill
Post by hank alrich
Post by Steve Freides
Post by Les Cargill
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Isn't C6 referring to C dominant 6th,a substitute or variation of
the dominant 7th chord ,whereas Cmajor 6th is a variation of the
Major7h chord, 4th chord and 5th chord
There is C6, Cadd6 and Cmajor6.
C6 is identical to A minor ignoring inversions. C E A
Cadd6 has both the V note and the VI note - C E G A
Both the above are C-E-G-A. Your C6 is Am/C in guitar lingo or 1st
inversion Am.
You would think so, yes. I've run into cases where the G
was optional but the A wasn't.
Post by hank alrich
Post by Steve Freides
No one bothers to say C add 6 because C6 says the same
thing.
"Add" tells you to skip notes, e.g., C9 is C-E-G-Bb-D but C add 9 is
just the triad plus the 9th, C-E-G-D. Thus C add 9 is "take a C
triad and add a 9th."
Post by Les Cargill
Cmajor6 live in context with a C9 chord but is
otherwise the same as an Cadd6
Never seen Cmaj6.
I think Les came by that one via steel guitar, where it's one of the
basic open tunings. Could be wrong.
The C6 in the tuning has a G, so that's not it. Steel tunings
are a superset of the chord they are named for anyway.
I honestly don't remember where I got the idea from. Yeah, Cadd6 and
C6 are often the same thing. "You mean Cadd6?" will disambiguate.
Most people do not mean an inversion on Am; they mean CEGA.
For me, if I want a C in the bass, I say C6: C-E-G-A, and if I want an A
in the bass, I say Am7: A-C-E-G. If you have a bass player, then it
mostly doesn't matter, anyway.

-S-
Nil
2015-05-16 01:13:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Freides
For me, if I want a C in the bass, I say C6: C-E-G-A, and if I
want an A in the bass, I say Am7: A-C-E-G. If you have a bass
player, then it mostly doesn't matter, anyway.
I'd probably use the name that best describes its function at the
moment. If it's acting as a C or substitute thereof, I'd call it C6 or
C/A depending on the bass note. If it's more of an Am thing I'd call it
Am7 or Am7/C depending on the bass note. Sometimes the bass note is
what it is for nice voice leading and doesn't really describe what the
chord is doing.
RichL
2015-05-16 00:37:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by hank alrich
Post by Steve Freides
Post by Les Cargill
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Isn't C6 referring to C dominant 6th,a substitute or variation of the
dominant 7th chord ,whereas Cmajor 6th is a variation of the Major7h
chord, 4th chord and 5th chord
There is C6, Cadd6 and Cmajor6.
C6 is identical to A minor ignoring inversions. C E A
Cadd6 has both the V note and the VI note - C E G A
Both the above are C-E-G-A. Your C6 is Am/C in guitar lingo or 1st
inversion Am. No one bothers to say C add 6 because C6 says the same
thing.
"Add" tells you to skip notes, e.g., C9 is C-E-G-Bb-D but C add 9 is
just the triad plus the 9th, C-E-G-D. Thus C add 9 is "take a C triad
and add a 9th."
Post by Les Cargill
Cmajor6 live in context with a C9 chord but is
otherwise the same as an Cadd6
Never seen Cmaj6.
I think Les came by that one via steel guitar, where it's one of the
basic open tunings. Could be wrong.
Usually it's just referred to as C6. Most common is C-E-G-A-C-E. I've got
my lap steel tuned that way (I think actually following a suggestion of
Les).
Les Cargill
2015-05-16 01:42:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
Post by hank alrich
Post by Steve Freides
Post by Les Cargill
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Isn't C6 referring to C dominant 6th,a substitute or variation of the
dominant 7th chord ,whereas Cmajor 6th is a variation of the Major7h
chord, 4th chord and 5th chord
There is C6, Cadd6 and Cmajor6.
C6 is identical to A minor ignoring inversions. C E A
Cadd6 has both the V note and the VI note - C E G A
Both the above are C-E-G-A. Your C6 is Am/C in guitar lingo or 1st
inversion Am. No one bothers to say C add 6 because C6 says the same
thing.
"Add" tells you to skip notes, e.g., C9 is C-E-G-Bb-D but C add 9 is
just the triad plus the 9th, C-E-G-D. Thus C add 9 is "take a C triad
and add a 9th."
Post by Les Cargill
Cmajor6 live in context with a C9 chord but is
otherwise the same as an Cadd6
Never seen Cmaj6.
I think Les came by that one via steel guitar, where it's one of the
basic open tunings. Could be wrong.
Usually it's just referred to as C6. Most common is C-E-G-A-C-E. I've
got my lap steel tuned that way (I think actually following a suggestion
of Les).
SCHWEET! Fun ain't they? Put a pic up on teh Facebook, plz.
--
Les Cargill
RichL
2015-05-16 02:52:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Les Cargill
Post by RichL
Post by hank alrich
I think Les came by that one via steel guitar, where it's one of the
basic open tunings. Could be wrong.
Usually it's just referred to as C6. Most common is C-E-G-A-C-E. I've
got my lap steel tuned that way (I think actually following a suggestion
of Les).
SCHWEET! Fun ain't they? Put a pic up on teh Facebook, plz.
Sure are! I tried a few different tunings, but I latched onto that C6 since
it gives you lots of different closely spaced intervals (major 2nd, minor
3rd, major 3rd...).

If you look at my FB album called "Family Room" (which I put together for a
relative who does interior decorating, who I had asked to give me some
suggestions to spruce it up), you'll see it on a stand underneath the
Gretsch Tenny, the Seagull acoustic, and the Jerry Garcia pic :-) Not close
enough to see any detail, though.

It's a homemade job that I bought used - cheap. It's got a Fender-style
pickup about in the same location where the middle pickup would be on a
Strat. Purists tell me that's "wrong" but it gives the thing kind of a
unique tone that I like. I'll get some close-up pics and put 'em up.
Bill Brewer
2015-05-15 01:37:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Isn't C6 referring to C dominant 6th,a substitute or variation of the
dominant 7th chord ,whereas Cmajor 6th is a variation of the Major7h
chord, 4th chord and 5th chord
The answers you got seem to miss the reason for the confusion. When we refer
to a C Major chord (the triad, as one of the answers pointed out), we
usually drop the "Major" part as a matter of convention, so we just refer to
a "C chord", when we actually mean a C Major chord. What's confusing is that
"Major" can be used for some extended chords to mean that the Major 7th note
is present. This doesn't apply to the 6th chord. So, CMajor6 is the same
thing as C6. The chord formula is 1-3-5-6 (note: no Major 7th note!),
whether you call that chord C6 or CMajor6.

Confusing, huh?
gtr
2015-05-15 15:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Isn't C6 referring to C dominant 6th, a substitute or variation of the
dominant 7th chord,
No, it isn't. It is referring to a CMaj6. A "dominant 6th" is called a C13.
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