Discussion:
roundneck resonator strings
(too old to reply)
John D. Misrahi
2004-02-26 22:59:48 UTC
Permalink
What gauges of strings do you guys use for roundneck resonator guitars
generally?

If it is being used to play fingerstyle, bottle neck etc..

and what if it is being used with a nut extender to be played lap style? How
heavy can I safely go? i am using it in DADF#AD

I use a set on my squareneck that is listed as a resonator guitar set to be
tuned GBDGBD - standard bluegrass dobro tuning, but i wonder if its too
heavy for my roundneck..it starts 1.015 or 16.. i think

john
foldedpath
2004-02-26 20:30:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by John D. Misrahi
What gauges of strings do you guys use for roundneck resonator guitars
generally?
If it is being used to play fingerstyle, bottle neck etc..
and what if it is being used with a nut extender to be played lap
style? How heavy can I safely go? i am using it in DADF#AD
I use a set on my squareneck that is listed as a resonator guitar set
to be tuned GBDGBD - standard bluegrass dobro tuning, but i wonder if
its too heavy for my roundneck..it starts 1.015 or 16.. i think
I have a system for figuring this out. :) This is kinda long, but maybe
it'll help.

The basic mantra is "for whatever altered tuning you're in, don't exceed
the string tension you'd have with a set of medium gauge strings in
standard tuning."

Most necks can handle medium tension. With a resonator, there are no
worries about the bridge lifting due to twisting forces, since the
tension is held at the tailpiece. It's all about the neck. I'm not sure
how a nut extender changes the geometry of the string pull, but I would
still go no higher than the equivalent string tension to standard tuning
(but adjusted for the tuning you're actually using).

Okay, so then you need to figure out your string tension in altered/open
tunings. I use an online calculator for this:

http://www.pacificsites.net/~dog/StringTensionApplet.html

To find medium tension in standard tuning (if you don't have the info
handy), leave the note names alone, change the "len" value for scale to
whatever your guitar scale is, and plug in the weights for a set of
medium gauge strings. I use D'Addario values, since that's what the
calculator data is based on. You'll end up with the following info
(remember this is for standard tuning):

len 25"

E4 .013" PL == 26.34#
B3 .017" PL == 25.28#
G3 .026" PB == 33.93#
D3 .035" PB == 35.41#
A2 .045" PB == 32.71#
E2 .056" PB == 27.91#

total == 181.6#

This text data can be pasted back and forth into the Java calculator by
the way, which is very handy. I keep notes on all this stuff to remember
what the heck I'm doing.

If the guitar was 25.6" scale instead of 25", the total for standard
tuning/medium strings would be about 190 lbs. So I assume that as long
as my reso guitar isn't running any higher than about 180-190 lbs. total
string tension, in ANY altered tuning.... then I'm okay. It's the total
tension that matters... and also to a lesser extent the balance between
high and low strings. You don't want the tension drastically higher on
one side, or you might risk collapsing the cone.

Okay, so now all you have to do is plug in the note values for the
tuning you're actually using. Watch how the tension changes, and try
plugging in different string gauges until you're back at a tension
similar to medium gauge in standard tuning. Keep an eye on the total
tension at the bottom. As long as you're not over 180-190 lbs., you're
safe (in my opinion, but make these judgements for yourself!). On a
vintage guitar you might want to be more conservative, but I've used
this to figure out what strings to run on my '37 roundneck Dobro (no
trussrod) in open E, and after a few months the neck hasn't budged. Just
be careful. Sneak up on it slowly, if you're worried.

If you prefer lighter tension for easier fretting behind the slide, use
light gauge in standard tuning as your guide for total tension. That's
roughly 160 lbs. total tension.

For example, here's the string set I'm using on my roundneck National
Bendaway, tuned in open E (the values are for stainless steel
roundwounds, which I'm currently using on this guitar):

len 25"

E4 .015" PL == 35.07#
B3 .017" PL == 25.28#
G3# .026" XS == 35.0#
E3 .032" XS == 33.51#
B2 .042" XS == 31.28#
E2 .056" XS == 24.77#

total == 184.91#

Notice how I've got the tension up pretty high on that upper E string,
but I like that because it helps support the slide. I've made all sorts
of fine-tuned adjustments in this set, to get the tension where I want
it on the individual strings. The main thing is that I'm still staying
under the safety margin of the Mantra ("no higher than medium tension in
standard tuning"). The calculator gets you close, but the final choice
has to be the result of experiment and personal preference. If you're
using non-D'Addario strings, the tension will also be a little different
than what the calculator says.

BTW, to make up these custom sets, I buy individual strings from
www.juststrings.com. I order in batches every 4-5 months, to keep from
paying too much in shipping.

This approach works for any tuning. I use the same system to figure out
what gauge strings to use on my baritone acoustic guitar.

P.S. here is the official word from National on safe string tensions, if
it helps. It's reasonably close to what I'm recommending here, I think:

"5. What string gauges should I use?

Our standard, acoustic round neck guitars are set up
at the factory with a regular medium gauge that is:
.013, .017, .026, .036, .046, .056. Some people like
to increase the first or second string's diameters
to .015 and .019. We find this good for playing in
standard guitar tuning and/or dropped D and G tunings.

If one desires to play in open A or open E tunings,
we would suggest that you use, for the wound strings,
a lighter gauge: G @ .024, D @ .034, A @ .044 and E @ .052 or .054.
One could then have .013 and .017 for first and second
strings. If you play in open A or open E and would
like to stay with the standard medium gauge strings,
then tune it down 3 steps before putting it away."
--
Mike Barrs
John D. Misrahi
2004-02-26 23:44:16 UTC
Permalink
*Whew*!
Thanks for the detailed breakdown...I think I know what to do...(i hope!)

john

foldedpath wrote in message ...
Post by foldedpath
Post by John D. Misrahi
What gauges of strings do you guys use for roundneck resonator guitars
generally?
If it is being used to play fingerstyle, bottle neck etc..
and what if it is being used with a nut extender to be played lap
style? How heavy can I safely go? i am using it in DADF#AD
I use a set on my squareneck that is listed as a resonator guitar set
to be tuned GBDGBD - standard bluegrass dobro tuning, but i wonder if
its too heavy for my roundneck..it starts 1.015 or 16.. i think
I have a system for figuring this out. :) This is kinda long, but maybe
it'll help.
The basic mantra is "for whatever altered tuning you're in, don't exceed
the string tension you'd have with a set of medium gauge strings in
standard tuning."
Most necks can handle medium tension. With a resonator, there are no
worries about the bridge lifting due to twisting forces, since the
tension is held at the tailpiece. It's all about the neck. I'm not sure
how a nut extender changes the geometry of the string pull, but I would
still go no higher than the equivalent string tension to standard tuning
(but adjusted for the tuning you're actually using).
Okay, so then you need to figure out your string tension in altered/open
http://www.pacificsites.net/~dog/StringTensionApplet.html
To find medium tension in standard tuning (if you don't have the info
handy), leave the note names alone, change the "len" value for scale to
whatever your guitar scale is, and plug in the weights for a set of
medium gauge strings. I use D'Addario values, since that's what the
calculator data is based on. You'll end up with the following info
len 25"
E4 .013" PL == 26.34#
B3 .017" PL == 25.28#
G3 .026" PB == 33.93#
D3 .035" PB == 35.41#
A2 .045" PB == 32.71#
E2 .056" PB == 27.91#
total == 181.6#
This text data can be pasted back and forth into the Java calculator by
the way, which is very handy. I keep notes on all this stuff to remember
what the heck I'm doing.
If the guitar was 25.6" scale instead of 25", the total for standard
tuning/medium strings would be about 190 lbs. So I assume that as long
as my reso guitar isn't running any higher than about 180-190 lbs. total
string tension, in ANY altered tuning.... then I'm okay. It's the total
tension that matters... and also to a lesser extent the balance between
high and low strings. You don't want the tension drastically higher on
one side, or you might risk collapsing the cone.
Okay, so now all you have to do is plug in the note values for the
tuning you're actually using. Watch how the tension changes, and try
plugging in different string gauges until you're back at a tension
similar to medium gauge in standard tuning. Keep an eye on the total
tension at the bottom. As long as you're not over 180-190 lbs., you're
safe (in my opinion, but make these judgements for yourself!). On a
vintage guitar you might want to be more conservative, but I've used
this to figure out what strings to run on my '37 roundneck Dobro (no
trussrod) in open E, and after a few months the neck hasn't budged. Just
be careful. Sneak up on it slowly, if you're worried.
If you prefer lighter tension for easier fretting behind the slide, use
light gauge in standard tuning as your guide for total tension. That's
roughly 160 lbs. total tension.
For example, here's the string set I'm using on my roundneck National
Bendaway, tuned in open E (the values are for stainless steel
len 25"
E4 .015" PL == 35.07#
B3 .017" PL == 25.28#
G3# .026" XS == 35.0#
E3 .032" XS == 33.51#
B2 .042" XS == 31.28#
E2 .056" XS == 24.77#
total == 184.91#
Notice how I've got the tension up pretty high on that upper E string,
but I like that because it helps support the slide. I've made all sorts
of fine-tuned adjustments in this set, to get the tension where I want
it on the individual strings. The main thing is that I'm still staying
under the safety margin of the Mantra ("no higher than medium tension in
standard tuning"). The calculator gets you close, but the final choice
has to be the result of experiment and personal preference. If you're
using non-D'Addario strings, the tension will also be a little different
than what the calculator says.
BTW, to make up these custom sets, I buy individual strings from
www.juststrings.com. I order in batches every 4-5 months, to keep from
paying too much in shipping.
This approach works for any tuning. I use the same system to figure out
what gauge strings to use on my baritone acoustic guitar.
P.S. here is the official word from National on safe string tensions, if
"5. What string gauges should I use?
Our standard, acoustic round neck guitars are set up
.013, .017, .026, .036, .046, .056. Some people like
to increase the first or second string's diameters
to .015 and .019. We find this good for playing in
standard guitar tuning and/or dropped D and G tunings.
If one desires to play in open A or open E tunings,
we would suggest that you use, for the wound strings,
One could then have .013 and .017 for first and second
strings. If you play in open A or open E and would
like to stay with the standard medium gauge strings,
then tune it down 3 steps before putting it away."
--
Mike Barrs
Dick Thaxter
2004-02-26 20:22:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by John D. Misrahi
What gauges of strings do you guys use for roundneck resonator guitars
generally?
If it is being used to play fingerstyle, bottle neck etc..
and what if it is being used with a nut extender to be played lap style? How
heavy can I safely go? i am using it in DADF#AD
I use a set on my squareneck that is listed as a resonator guitar set to be
tuned GBDGBD - standard bluegrass dobro tuning, but i wonder if its too
heavy for my roundneck..it starts 1.015 or 16.. i think
john
John Pearse Phosphor Bronze standard reso set is .016, .018, .027, .039,
.049, .059 There's a heavier "Uncle Josh" set that starts .018, .018

I use JP PB reso sets on my roundneck reso. It's a Flinthill which
seems to be made identically to the Regals. I think the Regal
roundnecks can take the same strings as squarenecks. I don't know about
a lot of these recent Fender, Epiphone, Dean, Johnson, etc. roundneck
reso knockoffs. They don't seem to be that sturdily built and I don't
think I'd try reso sets on them.

However, I play mine almost strictly using slide. If I were doing a lot
of fretting I'd probably use a medium set of standard guitar strings and
use two "B" strings--i.e., replace the high E with a .016 That's a
trick I use on electrics for slide too--just change out the wimpy E for
a .013.

I mostly use guitar open "G" (DGDGBD) not dobro open "G" (GBDGBD) but
I've kept it in DADF#AD for extended periods with the reso sets too. I
think the tension for DADF#AD and DGDGBD is probably about equal. Dobro
open G has higher tension, of course.

Dick Thaxter
David Morton
2004-02-26 21:47:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dick Thaxter
I don't know about
a lot of these recent Fender, Epiphone, Dean, Johnson, etc. roundneck
reso knockoffs. They don't seem to be that sturdily built and I don't
think I'd try reso sets on them.
I can't speak for all of them, but I have a Dean CE resolectric
http://www.deanguitars.com/ce.htm , and it's fine with 15-56 & 16-59 in
open G. Needed a bijou tweakette on the truss rod, but nothing else.
Mike brown
2004-02-27 15:24:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dick Thaxter
Post by John D. Misrahi
What gauges of strings do you guys use for roundneck resonator guitars
generally?
If it is being used to play fingerstyle, bottle neck etc..
and what if it is being used with a nut extender to be played lap style? How
heavy can I safely go? i am using it in DADF#AD
I use a set on my squareneck that is listed as a resonator guitar set to be
tuned GBDGBD - standard bluegrass dobro tuning, but i wonder if its too
heavy for my roundneck..it starts 1.015 or 16.. i think
john
John Pearse Phosphor Bronze standard reso set is .016, .018, .027, .039,
.049, .059 There's a heavier "Uncle Josh" set that starts .018, .018
I use JP PB reso sets on my roundneck reso. It's a Flinthill which
seems to be made identically to the Regals. I think the Regal
roundnecks can take the same strings as squarenecks. I don't know about
a lot of these recent Fender, Epiphone, Dean, Johnson, etc. roundneck
reso knockoffs. They don't seem to be that sturdily built and I don't
think I'd try reso sets on them.
However, I play mine almost strictly using slide. If I were doing a lot
of fretting I'd probably use a medium set of standard guitar strings and
use two "B" strings--i.e., replace the high E with a .016 That's a
trick I use on electrics for slide too--just change out the wimpy E for
a .013.
I mostly use guitar open "G" (DGDGBD) not dobro open "G" (GBDGBD) but
I've kept it in DADF#AD for extended periods with the reso sets too. I
think the tension for DADF#AD and DGDGBD is probably about equal. Dobro
open G has higher tension, of course.
Dick Thaxter
I've used the John Pearse reso strings on both a Fender reso and a Chinese
"Nashville" tricone with no problems. They sound great, but do make
fretting a bit tough. I use the tricone lap style so it doesn't matter,
but the Fender belongs to my Son in Law who plays bottleneck and frets, so
they were a bit heavy for him. They did sound fantastic though.
MJRB
John D. Misrahi
2004-02-27 19:33:29 UTC
Permalink
I have a Regal RD-35 and a Fender FR-50 (i think its the only reso they make
apart from a cutaway electrified one). I have read mostly horrific things
about it on the web..But I like it...I do want to get new wood (maple?)
saddle inserts as it has this retarded, badly cut plastic single
piece..which also means you cant get at the tension screw underneath without
removing it and the strings...I have it set up now for lap style with an
extender nut and tuned to DADF#AD. For the time being, i'm just learning,
and i dont have the money for anything else anyways..But i will probably
still keep it when i upgrade.. When i bought it , my choice was between this
or an Epiphone biscuit. I made my pick and I stand by it..What does your Son
in Law think of it? What do you think of it? I find the action is a bit too
low for bottle neck, but i like it for lap style.

john
Post by Mike brown
I've used the John Pearse reso strings on both a Fender reso and a Chinese
"Nashville" tricone with no problems. They sound great, but do make
fretting a bit tough. I use the tricone lap style so it doesn't matter,
but the Fender belongs to my Son in Law who plays bottleneck and frets, so
they were a bit heavy for him. They did sound fantastic though.
MJRB
Mike brown
2004-02-28 10:08:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by John D. Misrahi
I have a Regal RD-35 and a Fender FR-50 (i think its the only reso they make
apart from a cutaway electrified one). I have read mostly horrific things
about it on the web..But I like it...I do want to get new wood (maple?)
saddle inserts as it has this retarded, badly cut plastic single
piece..which also means you cant get at the tension screw underneath without
removing it and the strings...I have it set up now for lap style with an
extender nut and tuned to DADF#AD. For the time being, i'm just learning,
and i dont have the money for anything else anyways..But i will probably
still keep it when i upgrade.. When i bought it , my choice was between this
or an Epiphone biscuit. I made my pick and I stand by it..What does your Son
in Law think of it? What do you think of it? I find the action is a bit too
low for bottle neck, but i like it for lap style.
john
Richard (my Son in Law) likes the Fender. One day I'm going to put a
National resonator cone into it. I'm told it makes a wonderful difference.
Also, it doesn't have a full support ring, and I suspect that adding one
would mnake it even better.
MJRB
John D. Misrahi
2004-02-28 21:40:51 UTC
Permalink
Do you know if he replaced the bridge insert ? I have thought about
replacing the cone too..I want to get a new nut as well. But I really feel
its not a bad guitar. I like it.

john
Post by Mike brown
Richard (my Son in Law) likes the Fender. One day I'm going to put a
National resonator cone into it. I'm told it makes a wonderful difference.
Also, it doesn't have a full support ring, and I suspect that adding one
would mnake it even better.
MJRB
Mike brown
2004-02-29 08:03:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by John D. Misrahi
Do you know if he replaced the bridge insert ? I have thought about
replacing the cone too..I want to get a new nut as well. But I really feel
its not a bad guitar. I like it.
john
No. So far all it's had is an ocasional (very ocasional knowing Richard)
set of strings. He like it too.
MJRB

David Morton
2004-02-26 21:30:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by John D. Misrahi
What gauges of strings do you guys use for roundneck resonator guitars
generally?
If it is being used to play fingerstyle, bottle neck etc..
and what if it is being used with a nut extender to be played lap style? How
heavy can I safely go? i am using it in DADF#AD
I use a set on my squareneck that is listed as a resonator guitar set to be
tuned GBDGBD - standard bluegrass dobro tuning, but i wonder if its too
heavy for my roundneck..it starts 1.015 or 16.. i think
Not too heavy.

I've an early seventies O.M.I. Dobro 33D (round neck, biscuit bridge),
which I tune to Open G (D G D G B D).

I use Newtone National Lights: .015 .017 .026w .036 .046 .056. I've also
used Newtone National mediums .016 .018 .027w .039 .049 .059, and it's
happy with either.
Tony Done
2004-02-27 03:49:15 UTC
Permalink
I use 13-56 phos bronze. I've tried the dobro sets, but can't see sufficient
advantage in tone compared with the loss of dexterity for fingerstyle. - I
don't think they would harm a modern roundneck with a truss rod, tuned to
open D.



Tony D
Post by John D. Misrahi
What gauges of strings do you guys use for roundneck resonator guitars
generally?
If it is being used to play fingerstyle, bottle neck etc..
and what if it is being used with a nut extender to be played lap style? How
heavy can I safely go? i am using it in DADF#AD
I use a set on my squareneck that is listed as a resonator guitar set to be
tuned GBDGBD - standard bluegrass dobro tuning, but i wonder if its too
heavy for my roundneck..it starts 1.015 or 16.. i think
john
John D. Misrahi
2004-02-27 07:23:35 UTC
Permalink
I had the guy at the music shop build me a dobro set (i think the only
difference is the 3rd string is wound) since the small neighborhood shop
doesnt stock them. For playing lap style, i find the highest strings are too
light, so I replaecd them with an 0.016 and 0.017. It added up to a bit more
buying individual strings than getting a prepackaged set, so he took 10% off
to give me a bit of a deal. I got a set of strings for my flattop and some
dunlop and national finger and thumbpicks too.

john

Tony Done wrote in message
Post by Tony Done
I use 13-56 phos bronze. I've tried the dobro sets, but can't see sufficient
advantage in tone compared with the loss of dexterity for fingerstyle. - I
don't think they would harm a modern roundneck with a truss rod, tuned to
open D.
Tony D
Post by John D. Misrahi
What gauges of strings do you guys use for roundneck resonator guitars
generally?
If it is being used to play fingerstyle, bottle neck etc..
and what if it is being used with a nut extender to be played lap style?
How
Post by John D. Misrahi
heavy can I safely go? i am using it in DADF#AD
I use a set on my squareneck that is listed as a resonator guitar set to
be
Post by John D. Misrahi
tuned GBDGBD - standard bluegrass dobro tuning, but i wonder if its too
heavy for my roundneck..it starts 1.015 or 16.. i think
john
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