trying to learn to set up my acoustic guitar.....

[garybeck]

My acoustics are always getting out of whack, with changes in temp and humidity, lots of playing, etc. I also find that even when I pay someone $50 to set up my guitar, it still buzzes, or the action seems high, so I end up taking it back and they never really get it right. Or if they do, just a few weeks later it's off again. I sometimes wonder if it's even possible to set up an acoustic guitar with reasonable action and no buzzing.... and then I play some cheap guitar at a friends house that they haven't had set up in years, and it seems better than mine. This has gone on for years and has gotten to be frustrating, so i'm trying to learn how to do basic setup work on my own.

I purchased this really nifty action gauge:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NARHNCS

I am trying to adjust the truss rod to get rid of buzz and at the same time have an acceptable string action height.

It seems I can't find that "sweet spot" where the action is acceptably low and there is also no buzzing. I either have buzzing or the action is too high, or both.

Right now, I am measuring about 2.5 mm action on the low E string, and I still have buzzing. The guide says 2.0 - 2.5 mm, so I'm already on the high end of action. And when I play, the 2.5 mm action does seem too high, so I don't want to raise it anymore. But I still have some buzz and I need to get rid of it!

I must be doing something wrong. Or maybe I need to do some work on the bridge or nut.

If anyone has an helpful advice (besides "give up and go pay the $50 to have someone else do it) please let me know.

Thanks,
Gary in vermont

[David L. Martel]

Gary,

The truss rod adjusts "neck relief". There is no guarantee that a
properly adjusted neck relief will stop buzzing or give a good action. Do
you know what you are doing? Is your neck angle ok?
Electrics are much easier to adjust than acoustics. If you have an
electric do it first. It will help you understand the process of setting up.
Acoustics may require filing the saddle which may be difficult for a newby.
The order is important. First adjust the neck relief with the truss rod.
I use a business card as a gauge for this. Then check the intonation. Within
5 cents is ok. If it's off file the saddle. A sharp intonation must be filed
to increase string length. If flat you decrease the length. Now check the
action. Too high? File down the saddle. Too low? Either shim or make a new
saddle. Intonation and action are inter-active so start over and adjust
everything again. I find that twice through the set up gives me a good
guitar
I'm very uncomfortable with your claim that your guitar won't stay
properly set. What's going on? Have you had a professional set up?

Dave M.

[garybeck]

Post by David L. Martel
Gary,
The truss rod adjusts "neck relief". There is no guarantee that a
properly adjusted neck relief will stop buzzing or give a good action. Do
you know what you are doing? Is your neck angle ok?
Electrics are much easier to adjust than acoustics. If you have an
electric do it first. It will help you understand the process of setting up.
Acoustics may require filing the saddle which may be difficult for a newby.
The order is important. First adjust the neck relief with the truss rod.
I use a business card as a gauge for this. Then check the intonation. Within
5 cents is ok. If it's off file the saddle. A sharp intonation must be filed
to increase string length. If flat you decrease the length. Now check the
action. Too high? File down the saddle. Too low? Either shim or make a new
saddle. Intonation and action are inter-active so start over and adjust
everything again. I find that twice through the set up gives me a good
guitar
I'm very uncomfortable with your claim that your guitar won't stay
properly set. What's going on? Have you had a professional set up?
Dave M.

Thanks Dave,

yes I realize I have just enough knowledge to screw up my guitar.... and i have read that using the truss rod to adjust action is not correct... but I've also seen Luthiers on youtube do exactly that.

For example, this guy is known as one of the best luthiers in my area and he has this video "Changing Guitar Strings and Adjusting the Action" where right after he puts new strings on he checks the action and adjusts it with the truss rod:

so i've been using that video to remind me which way to turn the truss rod if my guitar starts to buzz or if the action seems high.

to answer your question, the neck seems pretty straight to me. I've read that it should have just a tiny curve to it. maybe mine is too straight.

I guess I just need to take it back in and pay the $50. I wouldn't mind it but it seems it's often not right when I get the guitar back and I have to take it back in again, and even then a few months later (when the humidity changes?) I have to do it all over again. I have two acoustics and I like to play both and I seem to have similar problems with both so my costs are doubled and that's why I really wanted to figure out how to do this myself.

[David L. Martel]

Gary,

Post by garybeck
I guess I just need to take it back in and pay the $50.

The fellow you regard highly quotes a price of $25 for a set up, which is
quite cheap. I assume that he adds on the price of a set of strings.

Post by garybeck
I wouldn't mind it but it seems it's often not right when I get the guitar
back and I have to take it back in again, and even then a few months later
(when the humidity changes?) I have to do it all over again. I have two
acoustics and I like to play both and I seem to have similar problems with
both so my costs are doubled and that's why I really wanted to figure out
how to do this myself.

Do you keep your guitars in their cases most of the time? Do you use case
humidifiers. Vt will certainly have low humidity during the heating season.
You need to compensate for this. Also, do you use the same sets of strings
all the time? Different string sets may have different tensions which may
cause the action to change.

Dave M.

[don hindenach]

On Wed, 1 Apr 2015 01:06:26 -0700 (PDT)

Post by garybeck
My acoustics are always getting out of whack, with changes in temp and humidity, lots of playing, etc. I also find that even when I pay someone $50 to set up my guitar, it still buzzes, or the action seems high, so I end up taking it back and they never really get it right. Or if they do, just a few weeks later it's off again. I sometimes wonder if it's even possible to set up an acoustic guitar with reasonable action and no buzzing.... and then I play some cheap guitar at a friends house that they haven't had set up in years, and it seems better than mine. This has gone on for years and has gotten to be frustrating, so i'm trying to learn how to do basic setup work on my own.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NARHNCS
I am trying to adjust the truss rod to get rid of buzz and at the same time have an acceptable string action height.
It seems I can't find that "sweet spot" where the action is acceptably low and there is also no buzzing. I either have buzzing or the action is too high, or both.
Right now, I am measuring about 2.5 mm action on the low E string, and I still have buzzing. The guide says 2.0 - 2.5 mm, so I'm already on the high end of action. And when I play, the 2.5 mm action does seem too high, so I don't want to raise it anymore. But I still have some buzz and I need to get rid of it!
I must be doing something wrong. Or maybe I need to do some work on the bridge or nut.
If anyone has an helpful advice (besides "give up and go pay the $50 to have someone else do it) please let me know.
Thanks,
Gary in vermont

Time to learn more about what and why. You could have uneven frets, mis-aligned nut, or even a loose tuner part. Frank Ford's www.frets.com has a host of useful info. There are other places, but it's 8:15am for me and I am far from a morning person . . . . . .

[dsi1]

Post by garybeck
My acoustics are always getting out of whack, with changes in temp and humidity, lots of playing, etc. I also find that even when I pay someone $50 to set up my guitar, it still buzzes, or the action seems high, so I end up taking it back and they never really get it right. Or if they do, just a few weeks later it's off again. I sometimes wonder if it's even possible to set up an acoustic guitar with reasonable action and no buzzing.... and then I play some cheap guitar at a friends house that they haven't had set up in years, and it seems better than mine. This has gone on for years and has gotten to be frustrating, so i'm trying to learn how to do basic setup work on my own.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NARHNCS
I am trying to adjust the truss rod to get rid of buzz and at the same time have an acceptable string action height.
It seems I can't find that "sweet spot" where the action is acceptably low and there is also no buzzing. I either have buzzing or the action is too high, or both.
Right now, I am measuring about 2.5 mm action on the low E string, and I still have buzzing. The guide says 2.0 - 2.5 mm, so I'm already on the high end of action. And when I play, the 2.5 mm action does seem too high, so I don't want to raise it anymore. But I still have some buzz and I need to get rid of it!
I must be doing something wrong. Or maybe I need to do some work on the bridge or nut.
If anyone has an helpful advice (besides "give up and go pay the $50 to have someone else do it) please let me know.
Thanks,
Gary in vermont

The first thing you have to do is check the neck relief. Press the
string down at the low E on the fret where it meets the body while
pressing down on the E first fret with your other hand. I use my pinky
on the right hand to hold down the string at the 12th or 14th fret. I
then reach over with my index finger and tap the string at the 7th fret
or so to check the relief. I like to keep my relief pretty low - around
1 mm. Guys that play with a heavy hand might want a little more.

If your relief is too high, you might want to have a pro look at it. I'd
adjust it myself though. My technique is to stand the guitar on the
floor and brace it with my legs and push the neck back at the top of the
headstock to counteract the pull of the strings. This relieves the
tension on the truss rod making it easy to adjust.

Sometimes, just adjusting the truss rod will solve your high action
problem. It may even make the action too low. If so, raise the action.

Once you get your relief adjusted and if you find that the action is
still too high, measure the amount of saddle height you have available
at the bridge. If it's less than 3mm or so, your top has bowed (which is
normal) and you might need major surgery i.e., a neck reset. If you have
a bolt-on neck or an adjustable one, that's an easy fix. I suspect that
this would be the real source of your problems - it usually is. Wood
ain't really the best material to use for guitar tops. :-)

[Tony Done]

Post by garybeck
My acoustics are always getting out of whack, with changes in temp
and humidity, lots of playing, etc. I also find that even when I pay
someone $50 to set up my guitar, it still buzzes, or the action seems
high, so I end up taking it back and they never really get it right.
Or if they do, just a few weeks later it's off again. I sometimes
wonder if it's even possible to set up an acoustic guitar with
reasonable action and no buzzing.... and then I play some cheap
guitar at a friends house that they haven't had set up in years, and
it seems better than mine. This has gone on for years and has
gotten to be frustrating, so i'm trying to learn how to do basic
setup work on my own.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NARHNCS
I am trying to adjust the truss rod to get rid of buzz and at the
same time have an acceptable string action height.
It seems I can't find that "sweet spot" where the action is
acceptably low and there is also no buzzing. I either have buzzing
or the action is too high, or both.
Right now, I am measuring about 2.5 mm action on the low E string,
and I still have buzzing. The guide says 2.0 - 2.5 mm, so I'm already
on the high end of action. And when I play, the 2.5 mm action does
seem too high, so I don't want to raise it anymore. But I still have
some buzz and I need to get rid of it!
I must be doing something wrong. Or maybe I need to do some work on the bridge or nut.
If anyone has an helpful advice (besides "give up and go pay the $50
to have someone else do it) please let me know.
Thanks, Gary in vermont

Is the buzzing on the high frets or the low ones? Insufficient relief
will cause buzzing on the low frets, too much relief will cause buzzing
on the high frets, when the action is set low. It really is a question
of finding the sweet spot. This is assuming the frets are level and the
neck isn't twisted. The business card gauge is about right, but I do it
by eye. A possible complication is if the fretboard extension is lifted,
as this can cause buzzing on the high (extension frets)

I aim for 1.6mm (4/64) on the treble side body fret and 2.5mm (6/64) on
the bass side, using an engineers 150mm (6") rule. I'm not particularly
heavy handed, but I get buzz if I go much lower than that.

But the first step is to set the relief.

[gtr]

Insufficient relief will cause buzzing on the low frets, too much
relief will cause buzzing on the high frets, when the action is set
low. It really is a question of finding the sweet spot. This is
assuming the frets are level and the neck isn't twisted. The business
card gauge is about right, but I do it by eye.

Exactly what is it that you do with the card?

[Tony Done]

Post by gtr

Insufficient relief will cause buzzing on the low frets, too much
relief will cause buzzing on the high frets, when the action is set
low. It really is a question of finding the sweet spot. This is
assuming the frets are level and the neck isn't twisted. The business
card gauge is about right, but I do it by eye.

Exactly what is it that you do with the card?

You press the string down at the first and body frets - you can use a
capo on the first fret - and look at the gap between the 6th fret and
the bottom of the string. That gap should be about the same as the
thickness of a business card, and you can use the card as a feeler
gauge. A credit card sized gap would likely be too much, no gap not enough.

[gtr]

Post by Tony Done

Post by gtr

Insufficient relief will cause buzzing on the low frets, too much
relief will cause buzzing on the high frets, when the action is set
low. It really is a question of finding the sweet spot. This is
assuming the frets are level and the neck isn't twisted. The business
card gauge is about right, but I do it by eye.

Exactly what is it that you do with the card?

You press the string down at the first and body frets - you can use a
capo on the first fret - and look at the gap between the 6th fret and
the bottom of the string. That gap should be about the same as the
thickness of a business card, and you can use the card as a feeler
gauge. A credit card sized gap would likely be too much, no gap not enough.

Cool, thanks!

[David L. Martel]

Gtr,

Post by gtr
Exactly what is it that you do with the card?

It's a ruler. You use it to measure the action. I presume that it goes
down to 64th divisions.

Many people like 6/64 or 5/64 at the low E. This ruler measures that gap.

Dave M.

[gtr]

Post by garybeck
Right now, I am measuring about 2.5 mm action on the low E string, and
I still have buzzing. The guide says 2.0 - 2.5 mm, so I'm already on
the high end of action. And when I play, the 2.5 mm action does seem
too high, so I don't want to raise it anymore. But I still have some
buzz and I need to get rid of it!
I must be doing something wrong. Or maybe I need to do some work on the bridge or nut.

That may be. Since you haven't been doing this long take note that
your guitar neck may well need significant time to adjust to whatever
you did with the truss rod. Any more I wait 24 hours before making a
decision as to whether I "fixed" it or it remains gimped. I also
adjust the truss rod in much smaller increments that I did long ago. I
also have a long scale and a solidbody, so that may make a difference.

Post by garybeck
If anyone has an helpful advice (besides "give up and go pay the $50 to
have someone else do it) please let me know.

I'd call and ask if you can hang out while he does the set up. If so,
it will be well worth the $50 bucks.

[hank alrich]

Post by garybeck
My acoustics are always getting out of whack, with changes in temp and
humidity, lots of playing, etc. I also find that even when I pay someone
$50 to set up my guitar, it still buzzes, or the action seems high, so I
end up taking it back and they never really get it right. Or if they do,
just a few weeks later it's off again. I sometimes wonder if it's even
possible to set up an acoustic guitar with reasonable action and no
buzzing.... and then I play some cheap guitar at a friends house that they
haven't had set up in years, and it seems better than mine. This has
gone on for years and has gotten to be frustrating, so i'm trying to learn
how to do basic setup work on my own.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NARHNCS
I am trying to adjust the truss rod to get rid of buzz and at the same
time have an acceptable string action height.
It seems I can't find that "sweet spot" where the action is acceptably low
and there is also no buzzing. I either have buzzing or the action is too
high, or both.
Right now, I am measuring about 2.5 mm action on the low E string, and I
still have buzzing. The guide says 2.0 - 2.5 mm, so I'm already on the
high end of action. And when I play, the 2.5 mm action does seem too high,
so I don't want to raise it anymore. But I still have some buzz and I
need to get rid of it!
I must be doing something wrong. Or maybe I need to do some work on the bridge or nut.
If anyone has an helpful advice (besides "give up and go pay the $50 to
have someone else do it) please let me know.
Thanks,
Gary in vermont

Complete Guitar Repair
by Hideo Kamimoto

http://tinyurl.com/odt8wr9