Fungus makes Wood Sound better!

[Wamp]

You guys may have seen this... A friend sent this email and a link...

Interesting to say the least.

A post about treatment of violin making wood using a type of fungus is
exciting to me, as an instrument maker.A friend and I've already expermented
with borax and salt water treatment of top and back woods for mandolin
construction with amazing results. We have played several instruments in
the white without treating the wood, leaving the wood unfinished, then
treating the wood and playing again. My personal judgement is that the
treatment of the wood resulted in a much, much better sounding instrument,
and when I added the Red Henry type bridge, it also improved the instrument
about the same amount.



I have been building instruments and doing research on building insturments
and studying musical sounds for about 30 years, and so far, these two
developments have been the most promising for improving the sound of
mandolins, vkiolins, and guitars.



I had not intended to say anything about borax and salt water wood
treatment since it is common knowledge now, but with this article about the
fungus treatment I just had to speak out, since both methods of treatment
seem to be getting results by changing the cellular structure of the wood.
Wonder how long it will be until someone designs a synthetic substitue for
wood for musical instruments. (Other than the present carbon fiber
material.)



http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/91900/-quot-mushroom-violin-quot-outplays-stradivarius.html

[Wamp]

A reply to the first email I was sent.



A friend of mine heads the violin shop at a nearby university and teaches
violin construction along with building and repairing of high end violins.
He has done extensive research into the treatment of woods. I hate to
reveal too much of the content of our discussions because he says that there
is quite a bit of competitiveness in this area amongst several of his peers.
Anyhow, he boils his wood with a variety of ingredients but primarily uses
copper sulfate as an additive to remove inorganic material from the wood. I
guess copper sulfate is the primary chemical used to maintain algae control
in fish tanks. He came upon this technique from an apothecary manuscript he
found when in Italy. The idea being that the inorganic material within the
wood cell structure is what traps moisture in the wood. By removing it
then there is nothing left to trap moisture and or "choke" the tone of the
wood. After boiling, he skims the oil from the wood off the top and
reintroduces it back to the wood by adding it to his varnish.
--
Wamp
Remove SPAMFROMTHECAN to reply...

Post by Wamp
You guys may have seen this... A friend sent this email and a link...
Interesting to say the least.
A post about treatment of violin making wood using a type of fungus is
exciting to me, as an instrument maker.A friend and I've already
expermented with borax and salt water treatment of top and back woods for
mandolin construction with amazing results. We have played several
instruments in the white without treating the wood, leaving the wood
unfinished, then treating the wood and playing again. My personal
judgement is that the treatment of the wood resulted in a much, much
better sounding instrument, and when I added the Red Henry type bridge, it
also improved the instrument about the same amount.
I have been building instruments and doing research on building
insturments and studying musical sounds for about 30 years, and so far,
these two developments have been the most promising for improving the
sound of mandolins, vkiolins, and guitars.
I had not intended to say anything about borax and salt water wood
treatment since it is common knowledge now, but with this article about
the fungus treatment I just had to speak out, since both methods of
treatment seem to be getting results by changing the cellular structure of
the wood. Wonder how long it will be until someone designs a synthetic
substitue for wood for musical instruments. (Other than the present carbon
fiber material.)
http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/91900/-quot-mushroom-violin-quot-outplays-stradivarius.html
--
Wamp
Remove SPAMFROMTHECAN to reply...

[Bob Dorgan]

Interesting articles, Tim, but boiling the wood sounds painful.

You southern boys are taking the term self abuse too literally.


dorgan

[Ed Edelenbos]

Post by Bob Dorgan
Interesting articles, Tim, but boiling the wood sounds painful.
You southern boys are taking the term self abuse too literally.
dorgan

Sheesh... and what came to my mind was how *ingesting* fungus has
definitely enhanced music in my past.

Ed

[Misifus]

Post by Ed Edelenbos

Post by Bob Dorgan
Interesting articles, Tim, but boiling the wood sounds painful.
You southern boys are taking the term self abuse too literally.
dorgan

Sheesh... and what came to my mind was how *ingesting* fungus has
definitely enhanced music in my past.
Ed

Nah, it was all in your head. :)

-Raf

[Ed Edelenbos]

Post by Misifus

Post by Ed Edelenbos

Post by Bob Dorgan
Interesting articles, Tim, but boiling the wood sounds painful.
You southern boys are taking the term self abuse too literally.
dorgan

Sheesh... and what came to my mind was how *ingesting* fungus has
definitely enhanced music in my past.
Ed

Nah, it was all in your head. :)
-Raf

LOL! I'm going to have to reread some of those Oliver Sacks books. Isn't
all perception up there, whether distorted or not?

Ed

[David Hajicek]

snip>>

Post by Ed Edelenbos

Post by Misifus
Nah, it was all in your head. :)
-Raf

LOL! I'm going to have to reread some of those Oliver Sacks books. Isn't
all perception up there, whether distorted or not?
Ed

They say perception is reality (too often, in my opinion).

Does that mean that if I walk out into Hwy 35W and step in front of that
fully loaded big Mack truck barreling down the road at 85or so, but I don't
"perceive" it - that truck is really not there and I won't have any problem?

Dave Hajicek

[Ed Edelenbos]

Post by David Hajicek
snip>>

Post by Ed Edelenbos

Post by Misifus
Nah, it was all in your head. :)
-Raf

LOL! I'm going to have to reread some of those Oliver Sacks books.
Isn't all perception up there, whether distorted or not?
Ed

They say perception is reality (too often, in my opinion).
Does that mean that if I walk out into Hwy 35W and step in front of that
fully loaded big Mack truck barreling down the road at 85or so, but I
don't "perceive" it - that truck is really not there and I won't have any
problem?
Dave Hajicek

I think that would delve into the realm of death perception. (grin)

Ed

[alcarruth]

This fungus thing has been going around on the web for a while. The
main problem I see with it is that the judgement is based on a playing/
listening test, and these are notoriously unrelaible. Very seldom does
the audience do any better than probability in picking out an
instrument, but the player is usually well aware of how good the thing
is. In trying to pick out the 'best' one the results generally vary a
lot from day to day.

The fungus used seems to eat out the hemicellulose, which makes up
about 25% of the structural weight of the wood. It's basically a
'filler' in the with the lignin 'glue' that hlds things together. It's
a branched chain polysaccaride, and breaks down naturally over time
into CO2 and H2O. That's why old wood tends to be less dense, and a
bit less stiff, than new wood of the same species, on the average.

Some makers I know stew their wood in water, which accomplishes the
same thing but faster.

As with all such claims, time will tell. If it's really as great as
the folks promoting it say, then pretty soon we'll all be doing it
just to remain competitive. Personally, I'm skeptical of all the
'magic bullet' approaches, and I've been building and studying
acoustics for more than thirty years myself.

Alan Carruth / Luthier

[Madgamer]

Post by alcarruth
This fungus thing has been going around on the web for a while. The
main problem I see with it is that the judgement is based on a playing/
listening test, and these are notoriously unrelaible. Very seldom does
the audience do any better than probability in picking out an
instrument, but the player is usually well aware of how good the thing
is. In trying to pick out the 'best' one the results generally vary a
lot from day to day.
The fungus used seems to eat out the hemicellulose, which makes up
about 25% of the structural weight of the wood. It's basically a
'filler' in the with the lignin 'glue' that hlds things together. It's
a branched chain polysaccaride, and breaks down naturally over time
into CO2 and H2O. That's why old wood tends to be less dense, and a
bit less stiff, than new wood of the same species, on the average.
Some makers I know stew their wood in water, which accomplishes the
same thing but faster.
As with all such claims, time will tell. If it's really as great as
the folks promoting it say, then pretty soon we'll all be doing it
just to remain competitive. Personally, I'm skeptical of all the
'magic bullet' approaches, and I've been building and studying
acoustics for more than thirty years myself.
Alan Carruth / Luthier

THANKS Alan AS ALWAYS YOU TELL IT LIKE YOU HEAR IT/or see it. Having
never met you are my second best guitar person right behind Scott
Baxendale. I always read your advice and your posts are always
interesting and informational, thanks again

Larry A

[Tom from Texas]

Post by David Hajicek
snip>>

Post by Ed Edelenbos

Post by Misifus
Nah, it was all in your head. :)
-Raf

LOL! I'm going to have to reread some of those Oliver Sacks books.
Isn't all perception up there, whether distorted or not?
Ed

They say perception is reality (too often, in my opinion).
Does that mean that if I walk out into Hwy 35W and step in front of that
fully loaded big Mack truck barreling down the road at 85or so, but I
don't "perceive" it - that truck is really not there and I won't have any
problem?
Dave Hajicek

The problem would lie with the people who are left behind to miss and mourn
ye. Please, do not try that experiment... okay?

[David Hajicek]

Post by Tom from Texas

Post by David Hajicek
snip>>

Post by Ed Edelenbos

Post by Misifus
Nah, it was all in your head. :)
-Raf

LOL! I'm going to have to reread some of those Oliver Sacks books.
Isn't all perception up there, whether distorted or not?
Ed

They say perception is reality (too often, in my opinion).
Does that mean that if I walk out into Hwy 35W and step in front of that
fully loaded big Mack truck barreling down the road at 85or so, but I
don't "perceive" it - that truck is really not there and I won't have any
problem?
Dave Hajicek

The problem would lie with the people who are left behind to miss and
mourn ye. Please, do not try that experiment... okay?
--
Tom from Texas
(The Tom Risner Fund for Deserving North Texas Guitarplayers is not liable
for any slander, hurt feelings, pointless moaning, or achy-breaky
heartache any post under this name should cause. Yall want easy cash or
sympathy... ye can kiss my grits!!)

OK. ;>)

Dave Hajicek

[Misifus]

Post by David Hajicek
snip>>

Post by Ed Edelenbos

Post by Misifus
Nah, it was all in your head. :)
-Raf

LOL! I'm going to have to reread some of those Oliver Sacks books. Isn't
all perception up there, whether distorted or not?
Ed

They say perception is reality (too often, in my opinion).
Does that mean that if I walk out into Hwy 35W and step in front of that
fully loaded big Mack truck barreling down the road at 85or so, but I don't
"perceive" it - that truck is really not there and I won't have any problem?

Of course not, I-35W is a figment of your imagination.

-Raf

[moobinsikau]

Post by David Hajicek
snip>>

Post by Misifus
Nah, it was all in your head. :)
-Raf

LOL!  I'm going to have to reread some of those Oliver Sacks books.  Isn't
all perception up there, whether distorted or not?
Ed

They say perception is reality (too often, in my opinion).
Does that mean that if I walk out into Hwy 35W and step in front of that
fully loaded big Mack truck barreling down the road at 85or so, but I don't
"perceive" it - that truck is really not there and I won't have any problem?
Dave Hajicek- Zitierten Text ausblenden -
- Zitierten Text anzeigen -

Although absolutely nothing exists "really" (from its own side) this
does not contradict the fact that phaenomena have a function. In your
case: your only conventional existing self will be flattened by the
only conventional existig truck. Interesting, isn't it ? But probably
this will be perceived as a problem ;-)

[Madgamer]

Post by Ed Edelenbos

Post by Bob Dorgan
Interesting articles, Tim, but boiling the wood sounds painful.
You southern boys are taking the term self abuse too literally.
dorgan

Sheesh... and what came to my mind was how *ingesting* fungus has
definitely enhanced music in my past.
Ed

well Ed maybe you should give up smoking it LOL!

Larry A

[p***@yahoo.com]

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:43:59 -0500, "Ed Edelenbos"

Post by Ed Edelenbos

Post by Bob Dorgan
Interesting articles, Tim, but boiling the wood sounds painful.
You southern boys are taking the term self abuse too literally.
dorgan

Sheesh... and what came to my mind was how *ingesting* fungus has
definitely enhanced music in my past.
Ed

Typical.

P

[John Sorell]

Post by Bob Dorgan
Interesting articles, Tim, but boiling the wood sounds painful.
You southern boys are taking the term self abuse too literally.
dorgan

You should probably use your microwave and get it over quickly.

John

[Wamp]

Bob,

Naw.... in the south we'd just batter and deep fry it!

Boilings is for peanuts and removing hog hair...

[David Hajicek]

Wamp:

This is some pretty interesting stuff to me. I don't know that I agree with
all that is said, but some of it makes good sense.

Namely, the Borax treatment would tend to polymerize organic material inside
the cell walls, making the wood more stiff with less loss. Also any residue
would help kill fungus. What is the purpose of the salt water? I would
think that doesn't enter into the reaction? This sounds like a good thing
to try.

Copper sulfate is primarily to kill fungi or other buggies eating the wood.
It is illegal for wood treatment for houses and such for environmental
reasons. It does a good job of killing fish and plants also. I don't have
any idea what it would do to the wood (except give it a blue or green tint?)
Boiling the wood (or some other method) to remove free oils sounds like a
good thing. Wouldn't a strong detergent help for this (I realize it is not
period, but lye soap was available)?

I dislike the idea of treatment with fungus (eat away the wood) as this is a
hard process to control accurately and how to you "turn off" the fungus when
just enough wood has been eaten away? What happens to all the detritus
inside the cells from the fungus? How is that eliminated? Why not start
with a less dense wood in the first place?

Please tell me more.

Thanks.

Dave Hajicek

Post by Wamp
A reply to the first email I was sent.
A friend of mine heads the violin shop at a nearby university and teaches
violin construction along with building and repairing of high end violins.
He has done extensive research into the treatment of woods. I hate to
reveal too much of the content of our discussions because he says that
there is quite a bit of competitiveness in this area amongst several of
his peers. Anyhow, he boils his wood with a variety of ingredients but
primarily uses copper sulfate as an additive to remove inorganic material
from the wood. I guess copper sulfate is the primary chemical used to
maintain algae control in fish tanks. He came upon this technique from an
apothecary manuscript he found when in Italy. The idea being that the
inorganic material within the wood cell structure is what traps moisture
in the wood. By removing it then there is nothing left to trap moisture
and or "choke" the tone of the wood. After boiling, he skims the oil from
the wood off the top and reintroduces it back to the wood by adding it to
his varnish.
--
Wamp
Remove SPAMFROMTHECAN to reply...

Post by Wamp
You guys may have seen this... A friend sent this email and a link...
Interesting to say the least.
A post about treatment of violin making wood using a type of fungus is
exciting to me, as an instrument maker.A friend and I've already
expermented with borax and salt water treatment of top and back woods for
mandolin construction with amazing results. We have played several
instruments in the white without treating the wood, leaving the wood
unfinished, then treating the wood and playing again. My personal
judgement is that the treatment of the wood resulted in a much, much
better sounding instrument, and when I added the Red Henry type bridge,
it also improved the instrument about the same amount.
I have been building instruments and doing research on building
insturments and studying musical sounds for about 30 years, and so far,
these two developments have been the most promising for improving the
sound of mandolins, vkiolins, and guitars.
I had not intended to say anything about borax and salt water wood
treatment since it is common knowledge now, but with this article about
the fungus treatment I just had to speak out, since both methods of
treatment seem to be getting results by changing the cellular structure
of the wood. Wonder how long it will be until someone designs a synthetic
substitue for wood for musical instruments. (Other than the present
carbon fiber material.)
http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/91900/-quot-mushroom-violin-quot-outplays-stradivarius.html
--
Wamp
Remove SPAMFROMTHECAN to reply...

[Wamp]

David,

I am only passing on threads from a Mandolin Group actually ;-) that a
friend is on, he thought the discussion was interesting and sent me a few of
the threads, it's getting quite technical at this point... See below.

I actually worked in a wood chemistry lab for three years as a lab
specialist at VA Tech. We were steam exploding wood and then extracting
the lignin using strong alkali and then trying to propoxylate the lignin
for a feedstock for rigid polyurethane foam. From what I know about the
composition of wood, cellulose makes up roughly 1/2 of its total. Lignin,
which some people call "creosote" when it oozes out of the log in the
campfire, is the glue that helps hold wood together. It's what makes brown
paper bags brown and is extracted as black liquor at the paper mill. It
makes up about 1/4 of wood. The remaining roughly 1/4 is made of various
hemicelluloses. I believe this is what folks are trying to remove from the
wood using fungi. Hemicelluloses are made of five carbon sugars instead of
six carbon sugars like glucose. We don't have enzymes to break cellulose
or hemicelluloses and some of the "soluble fiber" that we eat but don't
digest are these hemicelluloses. Xylan, made from the five carbon sugar
xylose, is one of the common ones. In Europe, they extract xylose from
pulp and convert it to xylitol as a dietary sweetener, since it tastes
sweet but we can't digest it. Note that one of the fungi that was
mentioned even had a genus name of Xylaria. My guess is that the fungi
that they are using are growing through the wood vessels and digesting
extracellularly the hemicelluloses which are sort of hard gummy in
consistency. This may be selectively removing mass from the wood so that
the remaining structure can vibrate more freely. I also suspect that it
weakens the structure as well.
So, when you eat some plum pudding for Thanksgiving or Christmas, think
about how that natural gooey fiber is full of hemicelluloses and keeps you
regular! Or eat a few prunes and think about how hard it would be to get
them to resonate! :-)
Happy Thanksgiving!
Woody

From wood to dietary sweetners, hmmmmm...

Anyway, if your interested I can get you a link to the site.

[David Hajicek]

Post by Wamp
David,
I am only passing on threads from a Mandolin Group actually ;-) that a
friend is on, he thought the discussion was interesting and sent me a few
of the threads, it's getting quite technical at this point... See below.

I actually worked in a wood chemistry lab for three years as a lab
specialist at VA Tech. We were steam exploding wood and then extracting
the lignin using strong alkali and then trying to propoxylate the lignin
for a feedstock for rigid polyurethane foam. From what I know about the
composition of wood, cellulose makes up roughly 1/2 of its total. Lignin,
which some people call "creosote" when it oozes out of the log in the
campfire, is the glue that helps hold wood together. It's what makes
brown paper bags brown and is extracted as black liquor at the paper
mill. It makes up about 1/4 of wood. The remaining roughly 1/4 is made of
various hemicelluloses. I believe this is what folks are trying to remove
from the wood using fungi. Hemicelluloses are made of five carbon sugars
instead of six carbon sugars like glucose. We don't have enzymes to break
cellulose or hemicelluloses and some of the "soluble fiber" that we eat
but don't digest are these hemicelluloses. Xylan, made from the five
carbon sugar xylose, is one of the common ones. In Europe, they extract
xylose from pulp and convert it to xylitol as a dietary sweetener, since
it tastes sweet but we can't digest it. Note that one of the fungi that
was mentioned even had a genus name of Xylaria. My guess is that the
fungi that they are using are growing through the wood vessels and
digesting extracellularly the hemicelluloses which are sort of hard gummy
in consistency. This may be selectively removing mass from the wood so
that the remaining structure can vibrate more freely. I also suspect that
it weakens the structure as well.
So, when you eat some plum pudding for Thanksgiving or Christmas, think
about how that natural gooey fiber is full of hemicelluloses and keeps
you regular! Or eat a few prunes and think about how hard it would be to
get them to resonate! :-)
Happy Thanksgiving!
Woody

From wood to dietary sweetners, hmmmmm...
Anyway, if your interested I can get you a link to the site.
--
Wamp
Remove SPAMFROMTHECAN to reply...

Wanp:

Yes please. This is very similar to discussions we have on our
LeftbrainLutherie group. My e-mail address is real.

Dave Hajicek

[Wamp]

David,

These emails were copied from the
***@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU
which is a mandolin list server that my friend was on, I am sure you can
subscribe to the listserve and I think that will be the only way to see the
entire thread as he didn't read it all nor save what he had.

not sure this helps...

However here is a link to the archives
http://listserv.nodak.edu/archives/comando.html
--
Wamp
Remove SPAMFROMTHECAN to reply...

Post by David Hajicek

Post by Wamp
David,
I am only passing on threads from a Mandolin Group actually ;-) that a
friend is on, he thought the discussion was interesting and sent me a few
of the threads, it's getting quite technical at this point... See below.

I actually worked in a wood chemistry lab for three years as a lab
specialist at VA Tech. We were steam exploding wood and then extracting
the lignin using strong alkali and then trying to propoxylate the lignin
for a feedstock for rigid polyurethane foam. From what I know about the
composition of wood, cellulose makes up roughly 1/2 of its total.
Lignin, which some people call "creosote" when it oozes out of the log
in the campfire, is the glue that helps hold wood together. It's what
makes brown paper bags brown and is extracted as black liquor at the
paper mill. It makes up about 1/4 of wood. The remaining roughly 1/4 is
made of various hemicelluloses. I believe this is what folks are trying
to remove from the wood using fungi. Hemicelluloses are made of five
carbon sugars instead of six carbon sugars like glucose. We don't have
enzymes to break cellulose or hemicelluloses and some of the "soluble
fiber" that we eat but don't digest are these hemicelluloses. Xylan,
made from the five carbon sugar xylose, is one of the common ones. In
Europe, they extract xylose from pulp and convert it to xylitol as a
dietary sweetener, since it tastes sweet but we can't digest it. Note
that one of the fungi that was mentioned even had a genus name of
Xylaria. My guess is that the fungi that they are using are growing
through the wood vessels and digesting extracellularly the
hemicelluloses which are sort of hard gummy in consistency. This may be
selectively removing mass from the wood so that the remaining structure
can vibrate more freely. I also suspect that it weakens the structure as
well.
So, when you eat some plum pudding for Thanksgiving or Christmas, think
about how that natural gooey fiber is full of hemicelluloses and keeps
you regular! Or eat a few prunes and think about how hard it would be to
get them to resonate! :-)
Happy Thanksgiving!
Woody

From wood to dietary sweetners, hmmmmm...
Anyway, if your interested I can get you a link to the site.
--
Wamp
Remove SPAMFROMTHECAN to reply...

Yes please. This is very similar to discussions we have on our
LeftbrainLutherie group. My e-mail address is real.
Dave Hajicek

[David Hajicek]

Post by Wamp
David,
These emails were copied from the
which is a mandolin list server that my friend was on, I am sure you can
subscribe to the listserve and I think that will be the only way to see
the entire thread as he didn't read it all nor save what he had.
not sure this helps...
However here is a link to the archives
http://listserv.nodak.edu/archives/comando.html
--
Wamp

Thanks.

Dave

[Tony Done]

Post by Wamp
You guys may have seen this... A friend sent this email and a link...
Interesting to say the least.
A post about treatment of violin making wood using a type of fungus is
exciting to me, as an instrument maker.A friend and I've already
expermented with borax and salt water treatment of top and back woods for
mandolin construction with amazing results. We have played several
instruments in the white without treating the wood, leaving the wood
unfinished, then treating the wood and playing again. My personal
judgement is that the treatment of the wood resulted in a much, much
better sounding instrument, and when I added the Red Henry type bridge, it
also improved the instrument about the same amount.
I have been building instruments and doing research on building
insturments and studying musical sounds for about 30 years, and so far,
these two developments have been the most promising for improving the
sound of mandolins, vkiolins, and guitars.
I had not intended to say anything about borax and salt water wood
treatment since it is common knowledge now, but with this article about
the fungus treatment I just had to speak out, since both methods of
treatment seem to be getting results by changing the cellular structure of
the wood. Wonder how long it will be until someone designs a synthetic
substitue for wood for musical instruments. (Other than the present carbon
fiber material.)
http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/91900/-quot-mushroom-violin-quot-outplays-stradivarius.html
--
Wamp
Remove SPAMFROMTHECAN to reply...

Spalted (fungus-decomposed) timber is becoming fashionable as a decorative
veneer timber for electric guitars, but it is too fragile and variable to be
used in a structural way. I can see that treating timber for a small amount
of decomposition could be beneficial. It makes a bit more sense to me, as an
occasional mycologist, than a lot of the other muck and mystery stuff (like
copper sulphate!!) that has been associated with improved violin tones.


Tony D

[Madgamer]

Post by Tony Done

Post by Wamp
You guys may have seen this... A friend sent this email and a link...
Interesting to say the least.
A post about treatment of violin making wood using a type of fungus
is exciting to me, as an instrument maker.A friend and I've already
expermented with borax and salt water treatment of top and back woods
for mandolin construction with amazing results. We have played
several instruments in the white without treating the wood, leaving
the wood unfinished, then treating the wood and playing again. My
personal judgement is that the treatment of the wood resulted in a
much, much better sounding instrument, and when I added the Red Henry
type bridge, it also improved the instrument about the same amount.
I have been building instruments and doing research on building
insturments and studying musical sounds for about 30 years, and so
far, these two developments have been the most promising for improving
the sound of mandolins, vkiolins, and guitars.
I had not intended to say anything about borax and salt water wood
treatment since it is common knowledge now, but with this article
about the fungus treatment I just had to speak out, since both methods
of treatment seem to be getting results by changing the cellular
structure of the wood. Wonder how long it will be until someone
designs a synthetic substitue for wood for musical instruments. (Other
than the present carbon fiber material.)
http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/91900/-quot-mushroom-violin-quot-outplays-stradivarius.html
--
Wamp
Remove SPAMFROMTHECAN to reply...

Spalted (fungus-decomposed) timber is becoming fashionable as a
decorative veneer timber for electric guitars, but it is too fragile and
variable to be used in a structural way. I can see that treating timber
for a small amount of decomposition could be beneficial. It makes a bit
more sense to me, as an occasional mycologist, than a lot of the other
muck and mystery stuff (like copper sulphate!!) that has been associated
with improved violin tones.
Tony D

SO thats what they did with all the wood from New Orleans that was
fungus infected.

Larry A

[p***@yahoo.com]

Post by Tony Done

Post by Wamp
You guys may have seen this... A friend sent this email and a link...
Interesting to say the least.
A post about treatment of violin making wood using a type of fungus is
exciting to me, as an instrument maker.A friend and I've already
expermented with borax and salt water treatment of top and back woods for
mandolin construction with amazing results. We have played several
instruments in the white without treating the wood, leaving the wood
unfinished, then treating the wood and playing again. My personal
judgement is that the treatment of the wood resulted in a much, much
better sounding instrument, and when I added the Red Henry type bridge, it
also improved the instrument about the same amount.
I have been building instruments and doing research on building
insturments and studying musical sounds for about 30 years, and so far,
these two developments have been the most promising for improving the
sound of mandolins, vkiolins, and guitars.
I had not intended to say anything about borax and salt water wood
treatment since it is common knowledge now, but with this article about
the fungus treatment I just had to speak out, since both methods of
treatment seem to be getting results by changing the cellular structure of
the wood. Wonder how long it will be until someone designs a synthetic
substitue for wood for musical instruments. (Other than the present carbon
fiber material.)
http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/91900/-quot-mushroom-violin-quot-outplays-stradivarius.html
--
Wamp
Remove SPAMFROMTHECAN to reply...

Spalted (fungus-decomposed) timber is becoming fashionable as a decorative
veneer timber for electric guitars, but it is too fragile and variable to be
used in a structural way. I can see that treating timber for a small amount
of decomposition could be beneficial. It makes a bit more sense to me, as an
occasional mycologist, than a lot of the other muck and mystery stuff (like
copper sulphate!!) that has been associated with improved violin tones.
Tony D

I couldn't disagree more.

The Ellastone has spalted maple B/S and it's as good as any other
guitar I've played with the exeption of a couple of Kinscherff's and
one of Lance McCollums.

It's too delicate a sound for fingerpicking (but then it's a small
jumbo so it's never going to project like an 00 anyway), but
flatpicked the sound (and projection) is huge.

Nor is it in any way fragile - one of the reasons I bought it was
because even a clumsy oaf like me couldn't get it to break up even
under extreme duress.

Most of the English contributors here have played it. It even
recovered from Hawkins doing something otherworldly with the tuning...

Pete

[kol_isha]

No wonder my guitars sound so terrific. Nothing like a little South Florida
fungus and mold to add a little pzazzz to things.

[Misifus]

Post by kol_isha
No wonder my guitars sound so terrific. Nothing like a little South Florida
fungus and mold to add a little pzazzz to things.

Traditionally, the fungus does its thing BEFORE the guitar is built. :)

-Raf

[hank alrich]

Post by kol_isha
No wonder my guitars sound so terrific. Nothing like a little South Florida
fungus and mold to add a little pzazzz to things.

Y'all got fungamental meaujeaux thang goin' _on_

[Les Cargill]

Post by hank alrich

Post by kol_isha
No wonder my guitars sound so terrific. Nothing like a little South Florida
fungus and mold to add a little pzazzz to things.

Y'all got fungamental meaujeaux thang goin' _on_

nik nik nik swamp.

--
Les Cargill

[Tony Done]

Post by p***@yahoo.com

Post by Tony Done

Post by Wamp
You guys may have seen this... A friend sent this email and a link...
Interesting to say the least.
A post about treatment of violin making wood using a type of fungus is
exciting to me, as an instrument maker.A friend and I've already
expermented with borax and salt water treatment of top and back woods for
mandolin construction with amazing results. We have played several
instruments in the white without treating the wood, leaving the wood
unfinished, then treating the wood and playing again. My personal
judgement is that the treatment of the wood resulted in a much, much
better sounding instrument, and when I added the Red Henry type bridge, it
also improved the instrument about the same amount.
I have been building instruments and doing research on building
insturments and studying musical sounds for about 30 years, and so far,
these two developments have been the most promising for improving the
sound of mandolins, vkiolins, and guitars.
I had not intended to say anything about borax and salt water wood
treatment since it is common knowledge now, but with this article about
the fungus treatment I just had to speak out, since both methods of
treatment seem to be getting results by changing the cellular structure of
the wood. Wonder how long it will be until someone designs a synthetic
substitue for wood for musical instruments. (Other than the present carbon
fiber material.)
http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/91900/-quot-mushroom-violin-quot-outplays-stradivarius.html
--
Wamp
Remove SPAMFROMTHECAN to reply...

Spalted (fungus-decomposed) timber is becoming fashionable as a decorative
veneer timber for electric guitars, but it is too fragile and variable to be
used in a structural way. I can see that treating timber for a small amount
of decomposition could be beneficial. It makes a bit more sense to me, as an
occasional mycologist, than a lot of the other muck and mystery stuff (like
copper sulphate!!) that has been associated with improved violin tones.
Tony D

I couldn't disagree more.
The Ellastone has spalted maple B/S and it's as good as any other
guitar I've played with the exeption of a couple of Kinscherff's and
one of Lance McCollums.
It's too delicate a sound for fingerpicking (but then it's a small
jumbo so it's never going to project like an 00 anyway), but
flatpicked the sound (and projection) is huge.
Nor is it in any way fragile - one of the reasons I bought it was
because even a clumsy oaf like me couldn't get it to break up even
under extreme duress.

Spalting, by it very nature is going to produce timber with highly variable
properties, so maybe we could compromise and say that spalted timber is
generally variable in strength and other physical properties and therefore
unsuited to mass production. - One of the acoustic timber/parts suppliers
(Warmoth?) notes that it has to be treated with care. Because of the
variability it would be possible to find pieces eminently suitable for b&s,
but I personally would worry about things like cracking with age.

Tony D

[Misifus]

Post by Tony Done

Post by p***@yahoo.com

Post by Tony Done

Post by Wamp
You guys may have seen this... A friend sent this email and a link...
Interesting to say the least.
A post about treatment of violin making wood using a type of fungus is
exciting to me, as an instrument maker.A friend and I've already
expermented with borax and salt water treatment of top and back woods for
mandolin construction with amazing results. We have played several
instruments in the white without treating the wood, leaving the wood
unfinished, then treating the wood and playing again. My personal
judgement is that the treatment of the wood resulted in a much, much
better sounding instrument, and when I added the Red Henry type bridge, it
also improved the instrument about the same amount.
I have been building instruments and doing research on building
insturments and studying musical sounds for about 30 years, and so far,
these two developments have been the most promising for improving the
sound of mandolins, vkiolins, and guitars.
I had not intended to say anything about borax and salt water wood
treatment since it is common knowledge now, but with this article about
the fungus treatment I just had to speak out, since both methods of
treatment seem to be getting results by changing the cellular structure of
the wood. Wonder how long it will be until someone designs a synthetic
substitue for wood for musical instruments. (Other than the present carbon
fiber material.)
http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/91900/-quot-mushroom-violin-quot-outplays-stradivarius.html
--
Wamp
Remove SPAMFROMTHECAN to reply...

Spalted (fungus-decomposed) timber is becoming fashionable as a decorative
veneer timber for electric guitars, but it is too fragile and variable to be
used in a structural way. I can see that treating timber for a small amount
of decomposition could be beneficial. It makes a bit more sense to me, as an
occasional mycologist, than a lot of the other muck and mystery stuff (like
copper sulphate!!) that has been associated with improved violin tones.
Tony D

I couldn't disagree more.
The Ellastone has spalted maple B/S and it's as good as any other
guitar I've played with the exeption of a couple of Kinscherff's and
one of Lance McCollums.
It's too delicate a sound for fingerpicking (but then it's a small
jumbo so it's never going to project like an 00 anyway), but
flatpicked the sound (and projection) is huge.
Nor is it in any way fragile - one of the reasons I bought it was
because even a clumsy oaf like me couldn't get it to break up even
under extreme duress.

Spalting, by it very nature is going to produce timber with highly
variable properties, so maybe we could compromise and say that spalted
timber is generally variable in strength and other physical properties
and therefore unsuited to mass production. - One of the acoustic
timber/parts suppliers (Warmoth?) notes that it has to be treated with
care. Because of the variability it would be possible to find pieces
eminently suitable for b&s, but I personally would worry about things
like cracking with age.
Tony D

That sounds to me like just the wood to be handled with loving care by
an individual luthier, building one at a time.

-Raf