Discussion:
Yamaha L-Series: Any comments about high-end Yamaha guitars?
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Jasmin Bajric
20 years ago
Permalink
Hi together,
here in Germany my local Guitar Dealer showed me a Yamaha LJ36 guitar and I
was really impressed about the sound and quality of this thing (Yamaha
handcrafted series) -- but also about the price: about 2.800 U$. I was
looking around for a Martin, Taylor or Lakewood guitar (a bread-and-butter
guitar: litle bit finger picking and a lot of blues), but he recommended
also to test out the Yamaha.
The dealer told me, that I should overcome my prejudice about 'japanese'
guitars -- and that Yamaha guitars in the US are much more appreciated than
in Europe and the prices are higher for the guitars than in Germany.
So, my questions is do you agree with my dealer:
- About the quality of high-end guitars from Yamaha or japanese guitar in
general?
- About buying a high price Yamaha insted of a Martin, Taylor or Lakewood?
- Any comments particularly about the L series of Yamaha, which was
introduced in 2004?

Thanks a lot for your comments, ideas & thoughts.

Best Regards
Jasmin
No Busking
20 years ago
Permalink
Post by Jasmin Bajric
- About the quality of high-end guitars from Yamaha or japanese guitar in
general?
- About buying a high price Yamaha insted of a Martin, Taylor or Lakewood?
- Any comments particularly about the L series of Yamaha, which was
introduced in 2004?
If it has the sound you're looking for, and the price is right, and it
appears to be a well-made instrument...you don't need the dealers advice or
ours. You just need your own ears.

As far as the quality of high-end Yamahas...check the joints, the finish
work, how the hardware is installed, and whether everything seems to fit
together well. Is the action the way you like it? If the strings need to
be lowered, is there enough saddle poking above the bridge to give you
plenty of room to move? There's no reason to believe the construction
quality of a guitar from the Yamaha factory is any worse than from any other
factory...the only way to tell is a direct comparison of the instruments in
question.

I do believe your dealer is wrong about the "US perceptions". Yamaha
guitars in the USA - even the high-end ones - have less "cache" than
instruments from Martin, Taylor, Guild, etc. That's not to say that they're
not as good (I've played some very fine Yamahas), but they usually aren't
mentioned in the same breath as high-end North American makers.

The guitar you're looking at is a jumbo size and shape, with solid rosewood
back and sides, an Englemann Spruce top, ebony fingerboard, and bridge,
Mahogany and Padauk neck, and a lacquer finish...all the basics of a
traditional American Made guitar. I'm at a bit of a loss for why the price
is so high...even in the US, they're advertised with a list price of $3200
(although it doesn't appear to be a commonly sold model here). For a
similar price, you could easily buy a very nice Martin, Taylor, or Larrivee
in the US...and they would likely hold their value better than the Yamaha.

Best regards,

Mike Pugh
Mike brown
20 years ago
Permalink
...
I agree. I like Yamaha guitars, and have found them to be good value.

BUT there's no way that I would pay that sort of money for any factory
guitar any more, you can get a good hand built guitar for that much.

JMHO

MJRB
no one at all
20 years ago
Permalink
Post by Mike brown
BUT there's no way that I would pay that sort of money for any factory
guitar any more, you can get a good hand built guitar for that much.
The L series *is* a hand built guitar. See...

http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/product/guitar/aguitar/message.html

See ya
Steve
Stephen Worth
20 years ago
Permalink
Post by No Busking
I do believe your dealer is wrong about the "US perceptions". Yamaha
guitars in the USA - even the high-end ones - have less "cache" than
instruments from Martin, Taylor, Guild, etc.
That's because the L series isn't really available in shops in the US.
Most people just haven't seen them. The quantity of the L series
guitars shipped to the US is extremely limited, and Yamaha has been
channelling them to the pro musicians they sponsor rather than to
retail.

See ya
Steve
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Savy
20 years ago
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Jasmin, I'm pleased to tell you that some of nicest sounding and
playing "bread-and-butter" guitars I've found are Larrivee and Yamaha
(both dreadnaughts).... both priced under $1000. Canadian. All solid
wood and well built. There is not much in the form of eye-candy but the
quality of tone seemed nothing short of impressive.
j***@berea.edu
20 years ago
Permalink
Jasmin: I've not played the Yamaha L-series or even seen them, none of
the stores I frequent carry them, but I've always though Yamaha's
played and sounded well --- for the price. That is, their "lower end"
models compared favorably with other manufacturer's at whatever price
point. But $2800US is a pretty hefty price tag. Is the the dealer's
final offer or just what he's got on the price tag? For that kind of
money, at least in the U.S., there would be a lot of competition. But
as Mike P. said, if it plays and sounds great to you and that sort of
money isn't too big an obstacle, you'll probably be happy with it. I
agree with your dealer it's best not to be "prejudiced" for or against
any particular brand of guitar. Evaluate them as indidivual
instruments and if they make you happy, that's all that counts (unless
you're considering resale value).

John
Stephen Worth
20 years ago
Permalink
Post by j***@berea.edu
But $2800US is a pretty hefty price tag.
It's a typical retail price for this particular model. The LJ36 is the
top of the line handcrafted jumbo- all solid woods, Engelmann Spruce
and Indian Rosewood. It's a formidable instrument, comparable to any
other make out there. The guitar he's talking about ain't your average,
everyday Yamaha.

See ya
Steve
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j***@berea.edu
20 years ago
Permalink
<<The guitar he's talking about ain't your average,
everyday Yamaha. >>



I wouldn't expect any guitar for that price to be.

John
Mike brown
20 years ago
Permalink
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by j***@berea.edu
But $2800US is a pretty hefty price tag.
It's a typical retail price for this particular model. The LJ36 is the
top of the line handcrafted jumbo- all solid woods, Engelmann Spruce
and Indian Rosewood. It's a formidable instrument, comparable to any
other make out there. The guitar he's talking about ain't your average,
everyday Yamaha.
See ya
Steve
I must confess that I didn't know that Yamaha made guitars of that standard.

MJRB
Stephen Worth
20 years ago
Permalink
Post by Mike brown
I must confess that I didn't know that Yamaha made guitars of that standard.
Most of the high end Yamahas end up in the Yamaha Artists Services
program. They don't usually make it to the retail level in the US.
Yamaha has an amazing custom shop too. I visited the YAS office in Los
Angeles, and they showed me the wood they were matching for a custom
handmade classical guitar. Beautiful stuff. They had some very tempting
toys hanging on the walls!

See ya
Steve
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Tony Done
20 years ago
Permalink
When I was looking for a decent acoustic in Darwin in the early-to-mid 80s I
picked up a Yamaha catalogue that listed the high end models. I think they
might have been called "L series" even then, but they had a different
headstock on those models, a bit like Guild IIRC.

Tony D
Post by Mike brown
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by j***@berea.edu
But $2800US is a pretty hefty price tag.
It's a typical retail price for this particular model. The LJ36 is the
top of the line handcrafted jumbo- all solid woods, Engelmann Spruce
and Indian Rosewood. It's a formidable instrument, comparable to any
other make out there. The guitar he's talking about ain't your average,
everyday Yamaha.
See ya
Steve
I must confess that I didn't know that Yamaha made guitars of that standard.
MJRB
Don Erickson
20 years ago
Permalink
I bought one of the early L series in the 1970's - I think it was an
L8, but it might have been an L6 - a spruce/mahongany dreadnaught. It
was my first "good" guitar and I played the hell out of it for quite a
while. When my German daughter told me that her German mother had
given her a 20-year old cassette of songs I recorded for Mom when we
were courting, I gave my daughter the L6 - the guitar I played for the
recording. My daughter has played it every day for the past 10 years.

IIRC the guitar was not all that great acoustically - handbuilt, but
overbuilt the way some of the earlier Japanese efforts were. There's a
guy out here in California who was involved with the original design
who says he knows how to "fix" these guitars, but I haven't gotten the
guitar back to give to him for the work.

I agree with other posters that you should be able to better at that
price point than the Yamaha. The whole Larrivee line would be
available below that price, I think, as would most of the "standard"
Martin models.

Don
Jasmin Bajric
20 years ago
Permalink
Thanks a lot folks!

So, if I try to summerize your thoughts and arguments at this moment, there
are three major factors which has been mentioned:

1. Yamaha is not bad in general -- the feeling and the ear should decide,
not the brand.
2. The depreciation of a Yamaha is probably higher then big brands like
Martin etc
3. The price (2300,- Euros ~ 2800 U$ Dollars) seems to be pretty high

I will think about these arguments and see which conclusion has to be made.
My first impressions about this guitar has been:

- Wow! It looks wonderfull
- it sounds superb
- it's rather hard to play
- the price is high

So, you added some new and interesting weights to these impressions.
Thank you all!

Warm Regards from Germany
Jasmin

P.S. for the case, someone wants to see this guitar:
http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/product/guitar/aguitar/message.html ==>
LJ36

As "No Busking" aka Mike, already wrote:
"The guitar you're looking at is a jumbo size and shape, with solid rosewood
back and sides, an Englemann Spruce top, ebony fingerboard, and bridge,
Mahogany and Padauk neck, and a lacquer finish...all the basics of a
traditional American Made guitar." That's it.
Carlos Alden
20 years ago
Permalink
Post by Jasmin Bajric
I will think about these arguments and see which conclusion has to be made.
- Wow! It looks wonderfull
- it sounds superb
- it's rather hard to play
- the price is high
Jasmin:

I'm late in adding an opinion to this thread, so I apologize. But I
couldn't help seeing the "rather hard to play" note. If this is merely
something that can be corrected by a good set-up (saddle height, fret work,
neck tweak, nut work, etc.) then it's no problem. But it might be that the
neck shape and width do not agree with the way your hand works. It also has
to do with the guitar's weight and body shape and how it sits on your leg
and the geometry of your body. There are some instruments that sit in my
hands and beg to be played, and others that feel like they're fighting me
all the way. This is totally separate from price and quality.

If this guitar doesn't feel right and it's more than a matter of simple
set-up work, it will never be the right guitar.

When I buy an instrument my first and most important criteria is this fit
factor. All other things are secondary. Looks are not important, and
sound is important but if the feel isn't right the sound won't be coming!

Carlos
j***@my-deja.com
20 years ago
Permalink
Jasmin Bajric wrote:> I was > looking around for a Martin, Taylor or
Lakewood guitar > but he recommended > also to test out the Yamaha.>
do you agree with my dealer:> - About buying a high price Yamaha insted
of a Martin, Taylor or Lakewood?


I'd just like to mention resale value. Martin, Taylor etc. made
their names making high-end guitars, and are known for it. Yamaha made
its name selling beginner-grade, inexpensive guitars, and the company
is so perceived. If the time comes to sell the instrument, it may
prove considerably easier to get back an appreciable fraction of the
original purchase price with a Martin or Taylor than with a Yamaha,
just because of these general perceptions.
Stephen Worth
20 years ago
Permalink
Post by Jasmin Bajric
Any comments particularly about the L series of Yamaha, which was
introduced in 2004?
A friend of mine is a professional musician, and he's sponsored by
Yamaha. He got me an LJX6c at a discount. It's a great guitar with
deep full sound and great electronics. I recently replaced the
synthetic saddle with a bone one, and the guitar rings really nice.
Very happy with my Yamaha L series.

See ya
Steve
--
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Tony Done
20 years ago
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Yamaha have been making high end guitars for a long time, at least since the
early 80s. I have no reason to doubt that they are as well made as their US
equivalents, but one thing that is certain is that, at least in the US and
here in Oz, something like Martin, Larrivee or Taylor would be easier to
resell.

The other question I would want answered is whether the neck joint is
resettable. I know that some oriental guitars have epoxied neck joints that
cannot easily be reset. This is being anal I know, but I would not buy an
expensive acoustic guitar that didn't have a resettable neck joint, even if
it would be covered under original owner's warranty. It just seems like poor
or maybe lazy design to me.

Tony D
...
Stephen Worth
20 years ago
Permalink
Post by Tony Done
The other question I would want answered is whether the neck joint is
resettable.
That's answered on the Yamaha web site. They use a multilayered neck
for extra rigidity, a wide neck block, and a dovetail neck joint. The
neck appears to me to be well built and resettable, but I'm not a
luthier.

The original poster should check out the LJ6 as well. It costs a
fraction of the price of the LJ36, but is still well built and sounds
great. I tried both, and couldn't detect enough of a difference to
justify the difference in price... my LJX6c sounds as good as guitars
costing three or four times what I paid for it. I don't care about
resale, because I don't plan to sell it anytime soon. I've had it a
year, and it's starting to open up real nice.

See ya
Steve
--
VIP RECORDS: Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD in great sound
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Savy
20 years ago
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Wow ! all the "L" series look really great !
Correct if i'm wrong but are there not at least a few masterful
Luthiers here who could build something comparable but taylored to
Jasmin's playing style that might be priced in the same ball park ?
Savy
don hindenach
20 years ago
Permalink
Post by Savy
Wow ! all the "L" series look really great !
Correct if i'm wrong but are there not at least a few masterful
Luthiers here who could build something comparable but taylored to
Jasmin's playing style that might be priced in the same ball park ?
Savy
yup
--
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donh at audiosys dot com
Kevin Hall
20 years ago
Permalink
Yamaha has made an 'L series' of steel string flat-tops since the late 70s.
When they were first introduced in the Canadian market I was working with
the company as an independent product consultant, evaluating prototypes of
new models and suggesting changes in design relevant to our market area and
climate.

The first of the type were the L-5 and L-10, all solid wood with sitka
spruce tops and mahogany and rosewood ( respectively) backs and sides.
After some changes to the initial prototypes the first production
instruments represented the best value for the dollar of any comparable
instruments in the North American market. As sales grew the company brought
out more elabourate models with their designation numbers ascending with the
price. Those ran up to the L-25, I believe, and most construction details
were the same as the lower models but cosmetics were 'improved' by adding
more marquetry, trim and gee-gaws. They didn't sound any better than the
entry level L-5s and L-10s.

Subsequent L series guitars over the years have gone through a number of
cosmetic and structural re-designs, but I've never played one yet which was
actually a better guitar than the simple, unadorned L-10 of the late 70s or
early 80s.

Yamaha is one of the better off-shore manufacturers, but try as they might
they just cannot elevate themselves to play at the same table as most of
better North American companies in the minds of most buyers. Bear it in
mind that if you do buy one of those relatively expensive Yamahas, it is
extremely unlikely that it will hold its' monetary value as well as things
like Martins.

If you are in love with the sound, feel and appearance of one particular
guitar, things like resale value will be inconsequential to you. If,
however, you are just trying to pick a decent guitar and may well want to
trade or sell it at some point in the future, you need to consider the
purchase as an investment. Check the ads for used instruments in your local
area and on e-bay so that you have some idea of what prices used examples
are fetching.

Good luck.

KH
Timberline Guitars and Ukes,
Canada.
...
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