Discussion:
That BIG Sound Live _ How Are You Obtaining It?
(too old to reply)
FirstAlternate
2008-11-06 15:31:11 UTC
Permalink
I've been putting some chorus on my guitar and adding a touch of reverb for
live playing. I've gone through several choruses, and so far they all make
the guitar sound unnatural. I've gotten used to it over the years, but it's
time to re-evaluate.

When I record, I get that space I want by putting slight delay on the
guitar and panning the signals. Not enough to get that doubled sound, but
just a slight sensation of space - about 2 ms. As you no doubt are aware,
stereo effects do not always translate well into the live setting, and in
some cases I work with only one speaker.

I was toying with the idea of getting an Aphex Acoustic Xciter. I've read
the reviews, which are mostly positive. Have you worked with this device,
or do you have another suggestion?

(BTW, my days of carrying racks of stuff are over. I'm thinking small
boxes)
don hindenach
2008-11-06 15:43:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by FirstAlternate
I've been putting some chorus on my guitar and adding a touch of reverb for
live playing. I've gone through several choruses, and so far they all make
the guitar sound unnatural. I've gotten used to it over the years, but it's
time to re-evaluate.
When I record, I get that space I want by putting slight delay on the
guitar and panning the signals. Not enough to get that doubled sound, but
just a slight sensation of space - about 2 ms. As you no doubt are aware,
stereo effects do not always translate well into the live setting, and in
some cases I work with only one speaker.
I was toying with the idea of getting an Aphex Acoustic Xciter. I've read
the reviews, which are mostly positive. Have you worked with this device,
or do you have another suggestion?
(BTW, my days of carrying racks of stuff are over. I'm thinking small
boxes)
serious answer:

I listen real hard to the guitar until it starts sounding big. Then I try to
keep playing it right there!
--
-donh-
donh at audiosys dot com
Ty Ford
2008-11-07 14:17:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by don hindenach
Post by FirstAlternate
I've been putting some chorus on my guitar and adding a touch of reverb for
live playing. I've gone through several choruses, and so far they all make
the guitar sound unnatural. I've gotten used to it over the years, but it's
time to re-evaluate.
When I record, I get that space I want by putting slight delay on the
guitar and panning the signals. Not enough to get that doubled sound, but
just a slight sensation of space - about 2 ms. As you no doubt are aware,
stereo effects do not always translate well into the live setting, and in
some cases I work with only one speaker.
I was toying with the idea of getting an Aphex Acoustic Xciter. I've read
the reviews, which are mostly positive. Have you worked with this device,
or do you have another suggestion?
(BTW, my days of carrying racks of stuff are over. I'm thinking small
boxes)
I listen real hard to the guitar until it starts sounding big. Then I try to
keep playing it right there!
Sounding BIG requires that you leave space for something to sound big in.

A lot of that has to do with the arrangement; more specifically, what you're
not playing. If you have too much going on, the space gets filled and you
lose the BIG sensation.

A good mic helps. Last year I put my Schoeps cmc641 on a dobro on stage
during a tech rehearsal. It made the dobro sound so big everyone wet their
pants, myself included. We had to mop the stage and control room.

I was quite surprised. He was playing laterally (face up). I put the mic on a
small boom and pointed it straight down over the resonator. The Schoeps
favors the mids and the dobro was gigantic.

Regards,

Ty Ford

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar

a***@contractorcom.com
2008-11-07 16:34:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ty Ford
Post by don hindenach
Post by FirstAlternate
I've been putting some chorus on my guitar and adding a touch of reverb for
live playing. I've gone through several choruses, and so far they all make
the guitar sound unnatural. I've gotten used to it over the years, but it's
time to re-evaluate.
When I record, I get that space I want by putting slight delay on the
guitar and panning the signals. Not enough to get that doubled sound, but
just a slight sensation of space - about 2 ms. As you no doubt are aware,
stereo effects do not always translate well into the live setting, and in
some cases I work with only one speaker.
I was toying with the idea of getting an Aphex Acoustic Xciter. I've read
the reviews, which are mostly positive. Have you worked with this device,
or do you have another suggestion?
(BTW, my days of carrying racks of stuff are over. I'm thinking small
boxes)
I listen real hard to the guitar until it starts sounding big. Then I try to
keep playing it right there!
Sounding BIG requires that you leave space for something to sound big in.
A lot of that has to do with the arrangement; more specifically, what you're
not playing. If you have too much going on, the space gets filled and you
lose the BIG sensation.
A good mic helps. Last year I put my Schoeps cmc641 on a dobro on stage
during a tech rehearsal. It made the dobro sound so big everyone wet their
pants, myself included. We had to mop the stage and control room.
I was quite surprised. He was playing laterally (face up). I put the mic on a
small boom and pointed it straight down over the resonator. The Schoeps
favors the mids and the dobro was gigantic.
Regards,
Ty Ford
--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar http://youtu.be/yWaPRHMGhGA
My first response to this was off the cuff - buy a McCollum, however,
from a recording point of view I can add something.

Way back (in 1982) I was looking for a big sound in an empty space. It
was a song about a young girl (Sally's New Bike), and her feelings of
isolation, so I wanted two things- to express the almost paranoid
compression of her emotions as she was riding it (it was a Triumph
125) and the feeling of freedom and escape whilst she was riding along
with the wind in her hair, so the verses had to be dense and the solos
had to be floating on air.

We got round this by recording the drums pretty much straight, the
bass with a little bit of reverb, and the vocals through a digital
delay.

The guitar line though, went through the digital delay and a WEM
copycat and a Laney Session 40 studio amp with a lot of reverb - and
three pre-amps.

What I'm trying to say is, make space behind the guitar if you're
using electronics - think canyons, not gulleys - and thin out the
arrangement.

If I ever work out how to get the tape onto disc I'll post it up
somewhere.

Pete
Mitch
2008-11-07 16:22:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ty Ford
I was quite surprised. He was playing laterally (face up). I put the mic on a
small boom and pointed it straight down over the resonator. The Schoeps
favors the mids and the dobro was gigantic.
Regards,
Ty Ford
Gigantic without that high-end "edginess"?
That seems to be the challenge with me
and SD condensers. Maybe I mic too close?
But then, how do we keep out the superfluous
noise, like a fairly close drummer? Talking
aggressive acoustic guitar here.

And I already know someone will say "plug in
Stupid!", so save it. I'm dreamin' here.

M- (or maybe not)
Ty Ford
2008-11-08 15:23:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch
Post by Ty Ford
I was quite surprised. He was playing laterally (face up). I put the mic on a
small boom and pointed it straight down over the resonator. The Schoeps
favors the mids and the dobro was gigantic.
Regards,
Ty Ford
Gigantic without that high-end "edginess"?
That seems to be the challenge with me
and SD condensers. Maybe I mic too close?
But then, how do we keep out the superfluous
noise, like a fairly close drummer? Talking
aggressive acoustic guitar here.
And I already know someone will say "plug in
Stupid!", so save it. I'm dreamin' here.
M- (or maybe not)
Mitch;

SD (or LD) condensers with the edginess (I'm guessing we're talking about the
same thing) can be a problem, period.

The Schoeps cmc641 is not edgy and it is a supercardioid, so it'll ignore
anything you point it away from.

If you can't afford the Schoeps, I like the Audix SCX-1 HC. Not a Schoeps,
but not as expensive.

Having said that, drums get into EVERYTHING. If the acoustic guitar is in the
same room as the drummer, my tactic is to record a simpler guitar track with
drums and then overdub the fancier guitar part.

I have had some luck lately with a client that has a Simon and Patrick
acoustic with a pickup that works pretty well direct. Her newer S&P has a
pickup and an internal mic. We found that to be a problem when she was also
recording a scratch vocal, because even at a low level on some songs the mic
inside the guitar was picking up her vocals!

Regards,

Ty Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar http://youtu.be/yWaPRHMGhGA
hank alrich
2008-11-08 18:47:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ty Ford
The Schoeps cmc641 is not edgy and it is a supercardioid, so it'll ignore
anything you point it away from.
With the caveat that as the pattern in front of a mic starts to tighten
a hot spot 180 degress off-axis begins to grow, and one must then
consider at what that hot spot is aimed.

This has bitten many a performer in the ear then they tweaked the
position of a mic such that the rear of it was pointed at a floor
monitor.
--
ha
shut up and play your guitar
don hindenach
2008-11-08 22:00:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by hank alrich
Post by Ty Ford
The Schoeps cmc641 is not edgy and it is a supercardioid, so it'll ignore
anything you point it away from.
With the caveat that as the pattern in front of a mic starts to tighten
a hot spot 180 degress off-axis begins to grow, and one must then
consider at what that hot spot is aimed.
This has bitten many a performer in the ear then they tweaked the
position of a mic such that the rear of it was pointed at a floor
monitor.
that's for cardiod. hyper- and super-cardiod are 140 degrees and 135 degrees
off-axis, with a null at 180
--
-donh-
donh at audiosys dot com
hank alrich
2008-11-09 03:28:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by don hindenach
Post by hank alrich
Post by Ty Ford
The Schoeps cmc641 is not edgy and it is a supercardioid, so it'll ignore
anything you point it away from.
With the caveat that as the pattern in front of a mic starts to tighten
a hot spot 180 degress off-axis begins to grow, and one must then
consider at what that hot spot is aimed.
This has bitten many a performer in the ear then they tweaked the
position of a mic such that the rear of it was pointed at a floor
monitor.
that's for cardiod. hyper- and super-cardiod are 140 degrees and 135 degrees
off-axis, with a null at 180
Don,

What you have described are the angles of the nulls.

Cardioids have the null at 180 degress off-axis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphone

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Audio/mic3.html

(Yeah, I know how dangerous it is to "argue" this stuff with you... <g>)
--
ha
shut up and play your guitar
don hindenach
2008-11-09 03:57:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by hank alrich
Post by don hindenach
Post by hank alrich
Post by Ty Ford
The Schoeps cmc641 is not edgy and it is a supercardioid, so it'll ignore
anything you point it away from.
With the caveat that as the pattern in front of a mic starts to tighten
a hot spot 180 degress off-axis begins to grow, and one must then
consider at what that hot spot is aimed.
This has bitten many a performer in the ear then they tweaked the
position of a mic such that the rear of it was pointed at a floor
monitor.
that's for cardiod. hyper- and super-cardiod are 140 degrees and 135 degrees
off-axis, with a null at 180
Don,
What you have described are the angles of the nulls.
Cardioids have the null at 180 degress off-axis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphone
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Audio/mic3.html
(Yeah, I know how dangerous it is to "argue" this stuff with you... <g>)
those articles have different off-axis nulls than the manufacturer polar
patterns upion which I based my my other post, but the bottom line is that they
show the hyper- and super-cardiod patterns as non-180-degree null points. qed.
--
-donh-
donh at audiosys dot com
hank alrich
2008-11-09 05:36:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by don hindenach
Post by hank alrich
Post by don hindenach
Post by hank alrich
Post by Ty Ford
The Schoeps cmc641 is not edgy and it is a supercardioid, so it'll
ignore anything you point it away from.
With the caveat that as the pattern in front of a mic starts to tighten
a hot spot 180 degress off-axis begins to grow, and one must then
consider at what that hot spot is aimed.
This has bitten many a performer in the ear then they tweaked the
position of a mic such that the rear of it was pointed at a floor
monitor.
that's for cardiod. hyper- and super-cardiod are 140 degrees and 135
degrees off-axis, with a null at 180
Don,
What you have described are the angles of the nulls.
Cardioids have the null at 180 degress off-axis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphone
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Audio/mic3.html
(Yeah, I know how dangerous it is to "argue" this stuff with you... <g>)
those articles have different off-axis nulls than the manufacturer polar
patterns upion which I based my my other post, but the bottom line is that
they show the hyper- and super-cardiod patterns as non-180-degree null
points. qed.
Right, that's what I'm saying: a cardioid nulls at 180; hypers and
supers do not. Hence, pointing the ass end of a hyper or super at a
floor monitor can cause feedback trouble. Doing so with a cardioid mic
does not.

The precise location of the side nulls with the tighter mics depends on
how tight the pattern is, and manufacturers often differ slightly in
their interpretation of a given pattern, IME.

Personally, I often prefer the tighter patterns on stage. But I have
often had to swap out for a cardioid when I'm not the one who'll be
using the mic.

http://www.crownaudio.com/mic_web/tips/mictip2.htm

"Cardioid: "Heart-shaped" pattern that offers maximum rejection (null)
at the rear of the microphone."

"Supercardioid: Has a narrower pickup pattern than cardioid, but also
has some rear pickup. Note that there are two nulls of maximum sound
rejection."

"Hypercardioid: Has a narrower pickup pattern than supercardioid, but
also has more rear pickup than supercardioid. Note that there are two
nulls."
--
ha
shut up and play your guitar
don hindenach
2008-11-09 15:37:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by hank alrich
Post by don hindenach
Post by hank alrich
Post by don hindenach
Post by hank alrich
Post by Ty Ford
The Schoeps cmc641 is not edgy and it is a supercardioid, so it'll
ignore anything you point it away from.
With the caveat that as the pattern in front of a mic starts to tighten
a hot spot 180 degress off-axis begins to grow, and one must then
consider at what that hot spot is aimed.
This has bitten many a performer in the ear then they tweaked the
position of a mic such that the rear of it was pointed at a floor
monitor.
that's for cardiod. hyper- and super-cardiod are 140 degrees and 135
degrees off-axis, with a null at 180
Don,
What you have described are the angles of the nulls.
Cardioids have the null at 180 degress off-axis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphone
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Audio/mic3.html
(Yeah, I know how dangerous it is to "argue" this stuff with you... <g>)
those articles have different off-axis nulls than the manufacturer polar
patterns upion which I based my my other post, but the bottom line is that
they show the hyper- and super-cardiod patterns as non-180-degree null
points. qed.
Right, that's what I'm saying: a cardioid nulls at 180; hypers and
supers do not. Hence, pointing the ass end of a hyper or super at a
floor monitor can cause feedback trouble. Doing so with a cardioid mic
does not.
The precise location of the side nulls with the tighter mics depends on
how tight the pattern is, and manufacturers often differ slightly in
their interpretation of a given pattern, IME.
Personally, I often prefer the tighter patterns on stage. But I have
often had to swap out for a cardioid when I'm not the one who'll be
using the mic.
yes, you are correct as usual!

cardiod = one monitor straight back

super/hyper = one or two, off to the sides

and yes, I got it backwards for some reason. oops!

must have been an inside-out moment - my apologies
--
-donh-
donh at audiosys dot com
hank alrich
2008-11-09 16:34:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by don hindenach
Post by hank alrich
Post by don hindenach
Post by hank alrich
Post by don hindenach
Post by hank alrich
Post by Ty Ford
The Schoeps cmc641 is not edgy and it is a supercardioid, so it'll
ignore anything you point it away from.
With the caveat that as the pattern in front of a mic starts to
tighten a hot spot 180 degress off-axis begins to grow, and one
must then consider at what that hot spot is aimed.
This has bitten many a performer in the ear then they tweaked
the position of a mic such that the rear of it was pointed at a
floor monitor.
that's for cardiod. hyper- and super-cardiod are 140 degrees and
135 degrees off-axis, with a null at 180
Don,
What you have described are the angles of the nulls.
Cardioids have the null at 180 degress off-axis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphone
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Audio/mic3.html
(Yeah, I know how dangerous it is to "argue" this stuff with you... <g>)
those articles have different off-axis nulls than the manufacturer polar
patterns upion which I based my my other post, but the bottom line is that
they show the hyper- and super-cardiod patterns as non-180-degree null
points. qed.
Right, that's what I'm saying: a cardioid nulls at 180; hypers and
supers do not. Hence, pointing the ass end of a hyper or super at a
floor monitor can cause feedback trouble. Doing so with a cardioid mic
does not.
The precise location of the side nulls with the tighter mics depends on
how tight the pattern is, and manufacturers often differ slightly in
their interpretation of a given pattern, IME.
Personally, I often prefer the tighter patterns on stage. But I have
often had to swap out for a cardioid when I'm not the one who'll be
using the mic.
yes, you are correct
It happens. I'm gonna go tell Lanis!
Post by don hindenach
as usual!
Buddy, right there you are wrong! <g>
Post by don hindenach
cardiod = one monitor straight back
Yep.
Post by don hindenach
super/hyper = one or two, off to the sides
Yep, and hope the performer(s) understand what's happening and why, so
they don't decide to tweak the mic position without considering
patterns. Plenty of folks have no clue at all about this stuff.
Post by don hindenach
and yes, I got it backwards for some reason. oops!
must have been an inside-out moment - my apologies
Sheesh, no problem! Just please keep a sharp eye on my bullshit and
holler when I get it all wrong!

Last two swing trio gigs I've used one Senn MD441 on Dave's Emperor and
another for my voice, but since I'm the tertiary vocalist in this group
I position it such that I can angle it down and point it at the McC to
add some "real" guitar sound to that from the K&K and PADI. This has
been working nicely in a very difficult acoustical setting, a small
lounge with lots of mirrors and nothing but hard surfaces, and a crowd
talking really loudly, all the while tremendously enjoying the music,
which is what brought them to the bar in the first place. We're glad
they're having fun but sometimes when we can't hear ourselves think, let
alone play, it becomes tiring.
--
ha
shut up and play your guitar
Mitch
2008-11-09 03:05:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ty Ford
Mitch;
If you can't afford the Schoeps, I like the Audix SCX-1 HC. Not a Schoeps,
but not as expensive.
Thanks Ty. So how do you feel about the Audix compared with the AT4053a?
Post by Ty Ford
Having said that, drums get into EVERYTHING. If the acoustic guitar is in the
same room as the drummer, my tactic is to record a simpler guitar track with
drums and then overdub the fancier guitar part.
But were talking *live* here. Sooooo, will the same mics still be the best
for the job?

M-
David L. Martel
2008-11-06 18:04:11 UTC
Permalink
First,

I follow the use of reverb but not the chorus. I like using gizmos to
modify the sound of the guitar, so I don't expect using chorus, phase or
flange to yield "natural" sound. What's your reason for expecting natural
sound from a chorus. I'm assuming here that we're talking about using the
effect rather than bypassing it.
One of my teachers liked using chorus and compression but he was not
creating a natural sound. I use some reverb (not a lot of feedback) to
create a "natural" sound.

Dave M.
Post by FirstAlternate
I've been putting some chorus on my guitar and adding a touch of reverb
for live playing. I've gone through several choruses, and so far they all
make the guitar sound unnatural. I've gotten used to it over the years,
but it's time to re-evaluate.
When I record, I get that space I want by putting slight delay on the
guitar and panning the signals. Not enough to get that doubled sound, but
just a slight sensation of space - about 2 ms. As you no doubt are aware,
stereo effects do not always translate well into the live setting, and in
some cases I work with only one speaker.
I was toying with the idea of getting an Aphex Acoustic Xciter. I've read
the reviews, which are mostly positive. Have you worked with this device,
or do you have another suggestion?
(BTW, my days of carrying racks of stuff are over. I'm thinking small
boxes)
George's Pro Sound Company
2008-11-06 18:23:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by FirstAlternate
I've been putting some chorus on my guitar and adding a touch of reverb
for live playing. I've gone through several choruses, and so far they all
make the guitar sound unnatural. I've gotten used to it over the years,
but it's time to re-evaluate.
When I record, I get that space I want by putting slight delay on the
guitar and panning the signals. Not enough to get that doubled sound, but
just a slight sensation of space - about 2 ms. As you no doubt are aware,
stereo effects do not always translate well into the live setting, and in
some cases I work with only one speaker.
I was toying with the idea of getting an Aphex Acoustic Xciter. I've read
the reviews, which are mostly positive. Have you worked with this device,
or do you have another suggestion?
(BTW, my days of carrying racks of stuff are over. I'm thinking small
boxes)
I do not believe there is any one path to big sound
I have a strong dislike for chorus, as it pitch shifts and modulates your
signal makeing the instrument seem out of tune to me
I may put a small room verb on a acoustic guitar, but only if it's ok with
the artist

I find delays longer than about 20 ms get to annoying as you can start to
hear the seperation from the dry sgnal

I say try everything and don't use what does not serve to sound you want

often useing a mic and a pick-up is all that is required (for me) to get a
huge sound
George
Sherm
2008-11-06 19:52:01 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:31:11 -0500, "FirstAlternate"
Post by FirstAlternate
I was toying with the idea of getting an Aphex Acoustic Xciter.
Yeah? What's the scoop?
Sherm
Tony Done
2008-11-06 20:17:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by FirstAlternate
I've been putting some chorus on my guitar and adding a touch of reverb
for live playing. I've gone through several choruses, and so far they all
make the guitar sound unnatural. I've gotten used to it over the years,
but it's time to re-evaluate.
When I record, I get that space I want by putting slight delay on the
guitar and panning the signals. Not enough to get that doubled sound, but
just a slight sensation of space - about 2 ms. As you no doubt are aware,
stereo effects do not always translate well into the live setting, and in
some cases I work with only one speaker.
I was toying with the idea of getting an Aphex Acoustic Xciter. I've read
the reviews, which are mostly positive. Have you worked with this device,
or do you have another suggestion?
(BTW, my days of carrying racks of stuff are over. I'm thinking small
boxes)
I use reverb or echo (Ibanez DE-7 in my case, but there are plenty to choose
from) in moderation, as I have never understood the attraction of chorus. I
also tend to use bass/treble cut, mid-range boost to soften the sound at
higher volumes.

Tony D
Sherm
2008-11-06 20:39:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Done
I use reverb or echo (Ibanez DE-7 in my case, but there are plenty to choose
I've got 5 Carl Martin pedals that I really like a lot. A house sound
man recently told me he puts just a little bit of chorus on the
overall final mix to "thicken" it up. Wonder if that's common?
Sherm
George's Pro Sound Company
2008-11-06 20:46:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sherm
Post by Tony Done
I use reverb or echo (Ibanez DE-7 in my case, but there are plenty to choose
I've got 5 Carl Martin pedals that I really like a lot. A house sound
man recently told me he puts just a little bit of chorus on the
overall final mix to "thicken" it up. Wonder if that's common?
Sherm
IMO, no
george
Steve Hawkins
2008-11-06 21:05:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sherm
Post by Tony Done
I use reverb or echo (Ibanez DE-7 in my case, but there are plenty to choose
I've got 5 Carl Martin pedals that I really like a lot. A house sound
man recently told me he puts just a little bit of chorus on the
overall final mix to "thicken" it up. Wonder if that's common?
Sherm
Not that I know of and he's putting chorus on your vocals with that move.
I'd be asking him to turn it off if it was me.

Steve Hawkins
Mitch
2008-11-07 01:56:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by FirstAlternate
I was toying with the idea of getting an Aphex Acoustic Xciter. I've
read the reviews, which are mostly positive. Have you worked with this
device, or do you have another suggestion?
I do kinda like the sound of my pickup
through a BBE DI with Sonic Maximizer.
It's more of a novelty to me really, when
I want a sound that isn't quite natural,
which is seldom. It's a big, fat effect
that sounds cool when it's just me. Sound
guys mixing you in a band probably wouldn't
like it.

M-
FirstAlternate
2008-11-07 16:56:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitch
I was toying with the idea of getting an Aphex Acoustic Xciter.  I've
read the reviews, which are mostly positive.  Have you worked with this
device, or do you have another suggestion?
I do kinda like the sound of my pickup
through a BBE DI with Sonic Maximizer.
It's more of a novelty to me really, when
I want a sound that isn't quite natural,
which is seldom.  It's a big, fat effect
that sounds cool when it's just me.  Sound
guys mixing you in a band probably wouldn't
like it.
M-
Useful info, thanks. Yes, this refers to my solo gigs.
a***@contractorcom.com
2008-11-06 22:39:37 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:31:11 -0500, "FirstAlternate"
Post by FirstAlternate
I've been putting some chorus on my guitar and adding a touch of reverb for
live playing. I've gone through several choruses, and so far they all make
the guitar sound unnatural. I've gotten used to it over the years, but it's
time to re-evaluate.
When I record, I get that space I want by putting slight delay on the
guitar and panning the signals. Not enough to get that doubled sound, but
just a slight sensation of space - about 2 ms. As you no doubt are aware,
stereo effects do not always translate well into the live setting, and in
some cases I work with only one speaker.
I was toying with the idea of getting an Aphex Acoustic Xciter. I've read
the reviews, which are mostly positive. Have you worked with this device,
or do you have another suggestion?
(BTW, my days of carrying racks of stuff are over. I'm thinking small
boxes)
Buy a McCollum.

Pete
curly'q
2008-11-06 22:58:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sherm
On Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:31:11 -0500, "FirstAlternate"
Post by FirstAlternate
I've been putting some chorus on my guitar and adding a touch of reverb for
live playing. I've gone through several choruses, and so far they all make
the guitar sound unnatural. I've gotten used to it over the years, but it's
time to re-evaluate.
When I record, I get that space I want by putting slight delay on the
guitar and panning the signals. Not enough to get that doubled sound, but
just a slight sensation of space - about 2 ms. As you no doubt are aware,
stereo effects do not always translate well into the live setting, and in
some cases I work with only one speaker.
I was toying with the idea of getting an Aphex Acoustic Xciter. I've read
the reviews, which are mostly positive. Have you worked with this device,
or do you have another suggestion?
(BTW, my days of carrying racks of stuff are over. I'm thinking small
boxes)
Have you tried messing around with the stereo field? There are some good
plugins that make stuff sound plumper by altering the spatial
characteristics without changing tones or sounding phasey.

LA
don hindenach
2008-11-07 01:10:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sherm
On Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:31:11 -0500, "FirstAlternate"
Post by FirstAlternate
I've been putting some chorus on my guitar and adding a touch of reverb for
live playing. I've gone through several choruses, and so far they all make
the guitar sound unnatural. I've gotten used to it over the years, but it's
time to re-evaluate.
When I record, I get that space I want by putting slight delay on the
guitar and panning the signals. Not enough to get that doubled sound, but
just a slight sensation of space - about 2 ms. As you no doubt are aware,
stereo effects do not always translate well into the live setting, and in
some cases I work with only one speaker.
I was toying with the idea of getting an Aphex Acoustic Xciter. I've read
the reviews, which are mostly positive. Have you worked with this device,
or do you have another suggestion?
(BTW, my days of carrying racks of stuff are over. I'm thinking small
boxes)
Buy a McCollum.
Pete,

That was my very first thought
--
-donh-
donh at audiosys dot com
Mike Brown
2008-11-07 06:05:17 UTC
Permalink
My sound is so big that I drown myself out.

#8^)

MJRB
levi
2008-11-08 16:58:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by FirstAlternate
I've been putting some chorus on my guitar and adding a touch of reverb for
live playing. I've gone through several choruses, and so far they all make
the guitar sound unnatural. I've gotten used to it over the years, but it's
time to re-evaluate.
When I record, I get that space I want by putting slight delay on the
guitar and panning the signals. Not enough to get that doubled sound, but
just a slight sensation of space - about 2 ms. As you no doubt are aware,
stereo effects do not always translate well into the live setting, and in
some cases I work with only one speaker.
I was toying with the idea of getting an Aphex Acoustic Xciter. I've read
the reviews, which are mostly positive. Have you worked with this device,
or do you have another suggestion?
(BTW, my days of carrying racks of stuff are over. I'm thinking small
boxes)
I'm fine tuning the Zoom A2 acoustic guitar "pedal", and I'm hopeful
of getting just the right sound through it. I was very happy with the
way my Martin HD-28 and an LR Baggs Active I-Beam sounded, but it was
incredibly prone to feedback -- even after tweaking it's position.
Eventually, I installed a K&K Pure Western Mini, but it doesn't sound
as good, but feedback was pretty much resolved. The basic A2 settings
did offer some improvement. The Zoom A2 has options for different
types of pickups, guitar models, reverb, etc..

I'm already running several different guitars into a small Behringer
mixer in order to provide a single signal to the PA and not have to
coordinate with the sound guy as I switch instruments. I'm planning
to try out the A2 routed through the mixer's external effect loop.
That way I can just mix in whatever amount of the A2's signal sounds
best for each instrument.

The "best" sound I've achieved so far, though, is with my "Hawaiian
lap slide". I installed a PickUpTheWorld #27, which feeds into an old
dual input Yamaha soundhole system that I have. The Yamaha combines a
magnetic pickup, an input for the piezo pickup, a preamp, and a
mixing dial to select how much of either pickup source you want.
Prior to installing this I'd tried using that LR Baggs (and again,
deinstalled it due to feedback), but this setup sounds sooo much
better. I have no plans to run this through the A2 (unless I can
achieve a convincing "dobro" sound, which is why I bought the A2 in
the first place...silly me!).
Matt Hayden
2008-11-11 06:21:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by FirstAlternate
I've been putting some chorus on my guitar and adding a touch of reverb for
live playing.  I've gone through several choruses, and so far they all make
the guitar sound unnatural.  I've gotten used to it over the years, but it's
time to re-evaluate.
When I record, I get that space I want by putting  slight delay on the
guitar and panning the signals.  Not enough to get that doubled sound, but
just a slight sensation of space - about 2 ms.  As you no doubt are aware,
stereo effects do not always translate well into the live setting, and in
some cases I work with only one speaker.
I was toying with the idea of getting an Aphex Acoustic Xciter.  I've read
the reviews, which are mostly positive.  Have you worked with this device,
or do you have another suggestion?
(BTW, my days of carrying racks of stuff are over.  I'm thinking small
boxes)
I go into a PADI or Fishman ProEQ Platinum (mostly for compression)
and then either one or two digital delays (it's a Pat Metheny thing).
It fills the space nicely and doesn't hit listeners over the head.

mh

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